Nicole: Hi there. Thanks for joining me on Lead Better Podcast. This is your host, Nicole Harlow, and today I'm chatting with my friend Sarah Cook. Sarah is a copywriting coach and a messaging mentor. She's a former naturopathic doctor, turned copywriter with 20 years of experience in the wellness space, spanning from clinical care, education, medical writing, and digital marketing. And now what she does is she is a AI copywriting mentor. So we had an awesome conversation. I am so excited for you guys. And I was actually really excited to have this conversation myself because I follow Sarah on Instagram and she always has really awesome content and just some really thought-provoking conversation starters about a wellness space, but she comes at it through a messaging and a copywriting lens. So where I like to take things in more of an automation and what AI can do for your business and operations, where Sarah really shines is talking about it from the messaging and the copywriting side. So I hope you guys find some really awesome gems in this conversation. I loved it. I hope you love it too. Hi everybody. I've got Sarah here with me, and I'm so excited to have this conversation. I've been like actually really excited to have this conversation with you.
Sarah: Thank you so much, Nicole. I know. Well, it's been a while. Like we've collaborated in the past. And so I was excited to hear from you again too.
Nicole: Yeah, that's actually where I wanted to start. So a lot of people listening will have no idea about this, but we've actually worked together in launching quite a few brands over the year. So we got together back for me in the Brand Better Days. So some of you may know me from more of the Brand Better Days. And Sarah and I would work together to help a practitioner get launched with branding, copywriting, and getting their website up and running. And Sarah was always my, you know, copywriter extraordinaire that I would come to whenever I needed somebody that, you know, because you have the background as a naturopathic doctor and you've got that technical knowledge. And so we've stayed in touch this whole time and I've loved watching your pivot. And I have to say, yeah, actually, I'm gonna hold this for a second. So I want to know, like, because I've watched you publicly pivot from where you were doing pretty much a hundred percent done for you copywriting to moving into like an AI copywriting mentorship side of your business. And I would say, you know, for me, you were pretty early adopter of AI as well. Like I thought that was super cool, you know. So I've been watching this journey. And so I wanted to hear from your perspective like, what was that pivot like for you? Did you transition where you were like still doing done for you? And then you're, you know, you weren't quite sure if you were gonna go. Like, I just, you know, what was that like?
Sarah: Well, like, even though it's been now about 18 months, I feel like I'm still a little bit inside of an identity crisis. You know, it used to be really easy to say, oh yeah, I'm a copywriter for health and wellness practitioners. Yeah. And but about 18 months ago, I made the decision that I was gonna go all in on really helping practitioners create their own marketing content in their own voice. And and really, it absolutely stemmed from seeing how AI really made that possible in a way that just really wasn't possible before. It was like, well, you know, yeah, before you really did have to pay a lot of money and outsource and have your marketing content done, you know, or yeah, you could DIY, but it was like really painful to DIY. And so I think, you know, I was doing so towards the end of 2024, I was doing copywriting VIP days for the most part. And that's when I was starting to use AI in the background. And especially like I would spend a whole day before I my actual writing day with a client. I would typically spend a whole day just researching them, looking at their past content, getting a sense of who they were, what they cared about, even their way of presenting themselves online, their style of writing in their posts, and essentially like learn their brand voice, you know, before going into a project with them so that I could be them, so that I could write as them. And I started using AI to help me do that, which was really like that initial shift of seeing how incredibly helpful it was to really be able to like mine somebody's work, come back to me with what is their voice, what is their style of writing, what are the messaging things they really care about. And then I was able to be so much more efficient in coming into their projects and like having that sort of background to where it was previously taking me a whole day to do that background research on them, I would get it down to be like two hours I do it in. And that was really kind of that initial shifting of realizing there's this potential here of how it can help us to just even get clear on messaging and things like that. And I just saw this potential of like, I have all of these practitioners who they don't even they don't necessarily want to hire me for a copywriting VIP day. They're trying to do it on their own. But what if I can actually bring in, you know, what we already already know foundations of copywriting and messaging and what works, helping them utilize that along with AI so they can really bring their voice into it. So yeah, it's been now since I really early 2025, so about 18 months, that I've been just really leaning into that. And so now I have a program, a community that helps practitioners use AI really as their marketing team. And I guess, you know, when I started, I didn't know if it was gonna work. It's sort of like how much can you teach, you know, versus having to just do it for people you never really know. But it's just really fun to watch and see like so many stories of practitioners who even had hired a copywriter, paid a lot of money, had their website done, but then they come in, they start using this system where they're participating so much more in the process. They're actually bringing themselves much more into their marketing, and they're seeing this shift of, oh, now the clients coming in are so much more aligned. Oh, now my discovery calls are so much easier. And it's because of this bringing themselves into their marketing that again is like only possible because of AI. So it's just really, really exciting to me.
Nicole: I love there's so many things that I'm like excited about about what you said. I mean, I think I want to just like comment on the fact like what you just said around it brings practitioners into their marketing. I think like even having seen like the way that we've worked together with clients in the past, it's like, you know, people, you may have a meeting with them, and like you said, like your job is to really understand like their background and their voice. And and that's really was our perspective from the branding side as well, too. It's like we want to make sure that we really get them. And the practitioner is a part of that process, but they're also kind of removed from the process, too, right? And so, and no one likes to write, and and not a lot of people like to read, you know, and so a lot of times I feel like someone, you know, you give them the finished product and in copy or whether we were doing social media, and they're kind of glancing at it and they're like, thank God somebody's done this for me. But also like they're not really in some ways absorbing their own message, like about their business. So I love that this gets them like really like having that back and forth relationship with AI to understand themselves better, their their message better, their avatar better, because they're they're co-participating in a way that you don't really get when you hire somebody to do that for you. Right. And so, like, I love that you said that because I'm just like, yeah, I can really see how I mean, I would say from my own perspective, like, you know, I'm a big lover of Claude and I have under like in the maybe two and a half months that I've been using it every day, I understand myself better, I understand my relationship better, I understand my job as a CEO better, I understand my avatar better. Like I would say in every metric, I understand better, I know better. I feel like I'm participating. And so that that isn't what I expected kind of you to say at the end, but I'm like, yes, I really resonate with that. And that's so cool.
Sarah: I think it's really a different way, too, of coming at AI because there's kind of on this one hand of just thinking, I really just need AI for my productivity. Yeah, yes, of course, like that's part of why AI makes it possible to, you know, to create your own marketing content. But it's not only about productivity. It's it really is about getting more in touch with your own message. And that's something I always say is like, I think a lot of times people think they have to show their voice first and then start creating their content. But it's absolutely the other way around. You figure out what your message really is, you you find your voice through the process of creating more and more content and just seeing what that feels like, seeing how people respond.
Nicole: And I think people, this is just reminding me, like, I think that there's like on the other side of AI, kind of the anti-AI side will say, there's this feeling of like, you know, you're you're sort of giving over sovereignty of your brain or your thinking. But I've actually found the opposite. I've found that like my own thinking has gotten better. Like I feel like I'm collaborating with a strategic partner where I'm getting clearer and clearer about my own messaging, my own decisions. And we're trying like right, I know you're kind of in the content wheel, and I'm sort of taking this a little bit on a CEO side, but you're also a CEO who's using AI, you know. And so I'm wondering if that's like and something you've experienced as well. Like, do you feel like your thinking is getting sharper, clearer, your decisions are getting easier?
Sarah: Like, I think it's all in how you use it. Oh, yeah. It it really is like, you know, there are you'll see kind of like trends online and telling you to kind of automate everything from start to finish. And, you know, especially when it's creating content, to me, I I'm actually not interested in 100% just saying, you know, hey Claude, go out, mine the internet for ideas, come back, you know, create it according to my brand voice guidelines, make the post, you know, I'll come back after I go to the gym and see all of my content done. Like to me, having 100% hands off like that is not not what I want to do with my own content. Because yeah, I, you know, to me, I think is really important that my ideas and my energy comes into it. Yeah. And and so yeah, I think that's like you could use AI the way you're saying, like what people are saying. Well, it makes it hands over your sovereignty, right? It just gives all the power to the tool. Like you could use it in that way.
Nicole: Like you're getting dumber as you use it, right? Because you're just like, you know, and I could see the perspective that that could be true too, but I think that way that I'm using it, the way that you're using it, this is, you know, you're checking in, there's guardrails, like I feel like And I love to tell this story.
Sarah: I always think of my one of my clients from my past days of where I was 100% writing blogs and social and everything for my clients. Yeah. And he is a functional medicine doctor. And of course, he's just like really busy with his practice, but he also was just like his mind was always having ideas. And so he would voice memo me between his patients, and he would be like, whatever random idea he had, and he'd be doing this brain dump to me, because knowing that I'm gonna take all these ideas about all the two women he just saw who were both depressed and they were supposed to be taking antidepressants, but he found they both had low iron and how iron relates to depression, and he's just, you know, rattling off his ideas and sending them over to his copyright and knowing that I'm gonna like okay, I'm gonna take his genius and turn it into front-facing content, right? Yeah, and I that's how I tell practitioners to think about the AI tool is like go to it with your genius, go to it with those inspiration and ideas and connections and experience only you have, and then let the AI organize it. Like it's not the the AI's job to come up with all of your content ideas, it's the AI's job to organize it, make it presentable, like that sort of thing. I mean, of course, there's there's all different ways to use it, but that's one really, I think, helpful example.
Nicole: We were DMing back and forth a couple of weeks ago, and something that I had said to you, which is this I still hold true, is like since I started working with Claude, I feel like I I've dumped so much of my I didn't even realize as a CEO and people listening are going to be a CEO and a busy practitioner at the same time, right? Like I'm not seeing patients all day, every day, right? My day-to-day looks very different. So a lot of our people listening are kind of holding both of those hats. I just didn't realize how much was in my brain. Like it is so freeing to be able to just like talk through every single process in my business over time, right? Like our onboarding process, our marketing. I just like so it's I feel like not only is it, you know, people tend to think about AI as just like the productivity, right? Like, write me, you know, five blog posts, yeah, and then it's done. But actually, I feel like where we can use it really efficiently as CEOs as a second brain for ourselves, right? And so being able to just dump like days worth of like and voice notes, are you a voice note person too?
Sarah: Absolutely. And I mean, you can just do that. You can open claw on your phone and yes, dictate, you know.
Nicole: That's that's me. I'm like driving. I had a drive like a couple of weeks ago where I was listening to just like some YouTube videos in the background, like about reels, like yapping reels. I was like watching like a uh thing about like how to get better at yapping on camera. And so as I'm driving, like I would, you know, pull out Claude. I just like have it on my dashboard and just like every 10 minutes, like stop and then just like kind of talk it through like some thoughts. And I'm like, that is I've never been able to do that watching something before, learning something before. Like the capability that we have right now is just like I don't know, it's I don't get the chance to talk to somebody.
Sarah: It's so true, it's so different now. When I read an article or you listen to a YouTube video, just like what you're saying, it's helpful. And in the past, they didn't have a way, I didn't have anything to do with it, right? I didn't have a way to kind of like file it away, whatever. But I think partly too, if you have your system set, I use Claude as well and kind of have my system set up with my projects. I have it connected with my notion where I topic ideas and all these things. If you have kind of like your setup and you have your connections and you have a system, yeah, now I will see an article that has all this helpful information. And I'm kind of like, oh, that actually relates to you know, to what my work I'm doing in my strategy project, and I'm gonna add that into my strategy project instructions. And so it's like if you have an initial system and structure, it's so much easier now to grab these extra pieces of tips and knowledge and you have something to book it into.
Nicole: No, I love it. I'm just like, I don't usually get the pleasure of geeking out over AI with somebody like yourself, you know, because I am very much like an enthusiast for, and it's really, you know, I've say this to my husband a lot. Like it's it's changed my life in quite a few ways for the better, right? And this is very, like, very early on. But I want to ask you, because you know, part of your work is like teaching practitioners how to use these tools. So for what we're talking about, right? Like having, and I know you're platform agnostic, we both love Claude, but let's just say for setting up a Claude, getting it set up with Notion, how hard is this for like a practitioner who's just like kind of tech phobic, doesn't really know what they're doing? Like, are we talking?
Sarah: I know it's such a great question. And I have to say it is surprisingly easy. Yeah. And even I just say the word notion, I totally get it. All of my practitioners in my membership, as soon as I said the word notion, they're kind of like, oh, is there a different way? You know, yeah, I don't have to use Notion. I totally get that. But I also had never used Notion until recently. I honestly don't even really know how to use Notion, and you don't have to because connected to Claude and Hey Claude, how would I set this up in Notion? It tells you, oh, can you do it for me? It does it. So that's that for better or worse, some of this you don't even have to learn the technical side at all because AI can do it for you. But yeah, in that particular example, as far as Notion, like I have a content strategy hub in Notion where I track my messaging pillars and my topic ideas, and I keep a log of my past content so that my AI can look at it and kind of be able to advise me, like, you haven't talked about this messaging pillar in a while, or here's an idea you had two weeks ago and you forgot about it. And I set it all up without actually going into Notion. I just connected it to Claude and I, you know, had Claude do that. And now, even as I add to that database, I do it via Claude because I don't want to open something that looks like a big ugly spreadsheet in Notion and type into it. I want to just open my Claude and voice memo and say, add this to my Notion, you know, but all of that, honestly, like it is not hard. And I totally get the tech phobia.
Nicole: Yeah.
Sarah: But I also think we have to get over that because we are actually at a point in history where there's no turning back. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's like saying, I don't want to use email. I mean, it's like you're gonna have to do it. And the thing is, once you do it, once you realize it's easy, like you know how to open your email and read things and reply now. Like it's not hard once you do it.
Nicole: I I'm so glad because I I wanted you to answer that question specifically because I am like a tech person, right? So this is my like, you know, 18 years I've been learning platforms, all of the stuff that so like it's kind of my job to be in the weeds of like, you know, development or building tools, things like that. But I've found it incredibly easy. So like my experience was just like yours. Like I don't use Notion, I don't log into Notion at all. It's just all through Claude. And even when I'm going through like one of my favorite things to do is like go through a project with Claude, which if anybody's listening, was pretty easy to set up. And then you're just doing everything in Claude, right? So you're one thing that I like to do because I am at heart a branding person, is I just ask it to make it pretty for me. If I'm doing like bookkeeping stuff, or I don't know, things that like anything where I know that I have resistance to it and to reading a lot of words, right? So it's gonna dump like, I don't know, recently I did like an Instagram audit of our channel through Claude. And I was just like, it knows me now where I'm just like make it pretty and it'll turn it into like an artifact or an HTML that I can and it's like has our brand in it. And so I'm like, if it's something that I really need to engage with, take a couple seconds and say, can you make this pretty for me to like actually enjoy reading it rather than like a wall of text, right? And so love that.
Sarah: Yeah, the visual side of it. I still need to learn that's my next thing.
Nicole: And it doesn't, that's the thing, is like it's not necessary at all. For me, I just find that I engage with the content easier if it's laid out in a way I was like, lay this out in a way that's like branded and beautiful. And yes, it takes a couple extra tokens and it goes through like da-da-da-da-da. You know, I might have to wait two minutes, but like I'll have this beautiful PDF of what our marketing plan is gonna be like. And I'd rather that than just like no one's even gonna see it, but no, it's just for me, right? And so that's like like that's one little tip that I would say for anybody listening, it's just like if you're having a hard time like engaging, because like it is, you know, kind of difficult sometimes to just like sit and read like a wall of text, you know, and also like you can yeah, ask it to make it prettier for you and give it some training in terms of like, you know, I'll usually say to Claude, like, I don't need to see all of your thinking, I just want to know what your recommendation is for me. And so if you're finding that the output is like huge and you're just like, oh my god, I don't want to read all this. I'm I'm just like I have it part of my training at the core level to like always be honest with me. Don't like tell me things because you think it's gonna like make me happy or like always be honest with me and tell me exactly if you know something or you don't know something. But also I don't need to see like all your thinking process. Just tell me like what's your like what is the part that I need to know? I'm a busy CEO, like that's like top level.
Sarah: Busy CEO, what do I need to know? I think you're right. That is something we have to do. When I first went into Cloud, I was like, whoa, I do not. Like this because it it did give just way too long of an answer. Yeah, like yeah. I was used to chat GPT with like short bullet of things, and yeah, you have to figure out how you wanted to respond to you, and yeah, you have to put it in your instructions. So then now it's all in the back end of my instructions and it responds how I like. But yeah, you have to, you have to get that set up at first.
Nicole: The other thing I want to say, and then I want to get to a question specifically for you. But while we're talking about, you know, working efficiently with AI, like one of the things that I did that is like so invaluable is I fed it all of the personality test stuff that I could give it. It's got my astrology, it's got my human design, it's got my Myers Briggs, it's got as much information and it's turned that into like a CEO profile that's specifically for me. And it can tell me exactly when a marketing thing is not for me.
Sarah: Yeah.
Nicole: So like I'm not Alex Hermosy. Like I am a four or six on human design, which is all about warm networking. Like, I am not here to cold broadcast to anybody. I'm here to just like be warm and friendly and build relationships. And so that's just one example of like because this is gonna be so different for everybody.
Sarah: So you can actually make I did that too in my strategies. I call them studios, my projects, I call them my studios. So my strategy studio, I've I loaded up with all that same stuff because I was like, it needs to, if it's gonna be helping me figure out my funnel strategy, and like, do I want to create this new offer? Like, it has to know my all of my astrology, my human design, it's all in there too.
Nicole: We're so lying up. I know, I know. I love it because it's like it is so helpful because I can throw through like an idea. Like I would be like voice noting, and I'm just like, Facebook ads, what do you think about that? Like, should I start a sub stack? Like, I can ask it the questions of like, because you know, we're all here consuming, right? And so, like, we're seeing all day, every day that we should be doing X, Y, and Z to grow our business. And most of the time, Claude's just like, that's not for you at all. Here's why. Like, because you are designed to, you know, in my design, like, I'm not even designed to go out and get things, I'm supposed to emanate and things come to me. So I'm like, that's a whole different strategy of just like, like, I'm here to me, versus like I'm there fishing and like, you know, cold emailing people every day. It's just like, nope, that will burn you out so much. And somebody else, like, that's their strategy, right? And so I think I love that you did that too, because for me, then I can throw everything through like, is this authentic to me?
Sarah: Yeah, it's one of the best things about AI being able to 100% customize your business. Like, yeah, I think this, I think this is a little maybe off topic, but it's a huge shift in I think coaching programs and things used to all be like, this is how I grew my business to a million dollars. And so therefore, this is how you're gonna do it. Follow my roadmap, follow my blueprint, and that's completely shifting, but I is making it so much easier to follow your own blueprint, which is exactly what you and I are doing with this.
Nicole: Yes, I think that's so well said, but I want to get back to some of the copywriting stuff because you post such good content on Instagram, and I will definitely have the link like in the show notes so people can follow you. One of the things you posted about a couple weeks ago was like three messaging points that just became obsolete for wellness practitioners. And I actually messaged you when I saw the post because I was like, no one's talking about this, but it's so good. So I want to make sure that you go through those points so our practitioners can learn them and understand like what I'll tell you where that like my inspiration for writing that post.
Sarah: It was when Microsoft Co-Pilot Health just came out. And so now we have kind of like all the top platforms have a specific health platform. You know, we have Chat APT Health, we've got the co-pilot health, we've got Perplexity Health, whatever. So they all have these apps that and they all kind of function the same way. But like when I saw the Co-Pilot Health promo video, I immediately was like, holy crap. It's doing all the things that my clients are saying are is like what makes them unique, right? It's like, let me just so here's the thing. I'm coming at this from like, these are actually messaging points I have written on naturopathic doctor websites, functional medicine practical websites.
Nicole: Like me too. Yes, yes, that's why it moved me so much when I heard this.
Sarah: I was like, not like, you know, me just trying to be clickbait and like mean about don't say this in your marketing. Like I 100% have used all these messaging points, but I from this moment forward, I'm going to think twice about it.
Nicole: Yeah.
Sarah: Because I think you have to, you have to actually have a bit of an understanding about what these AI tools can do before even any of this making sense. Like, for example, I'm saying, oh, you know, you can't you don't want to say, oh, I'll I'll connect the dots. I'm like a medical detective. But like in order to even understand why you should not be saying that, you have to understand what these AI tools are doing, I think. Right. So, like, really fast, what I'm what I don't I am not signed up for any of these personally, because I'm just super cautious about connecting my data to stuff like that. So I'm not signed up, but I can tell you what the promo video says. And essentially what it does in the promo video, it has someone say, Why am I so tired? And then it looks back and it's like, well, two weeks ago you started a new medication. Last week you traveled, so you're off your sleep schedule. You're based on your wearable, your heart rate has been high when you go to bed at night and you've been exercising late in the evening. And it is connecting all the dots. Yeah, even connecting all the dots, even like like such a highly personalized way.
Nicole: Yeah. And I've not used any of the health stuff, but I'm like, even using last year, like these tools are moving on so quickly. But like I was doing hormone testing, right? Pee on a little stick, and then just get your data. And I was throwing it into Chad GPT and just being like, What can you tell me about this? Right. And so, like, even at that level, like it's still connecting the dots, right? And I think they're like, So, what should practitioners think about in terms of like if they're not connecting the dots?
Sarah: Yeah, so I think what this means is that now people believe that they are able to connect the dots on their own. They believe that they've had this conversation with their Chat GPT health. They've connected, like, oh, my tiredness relates to all these things. And so if you think about it, okay, they believe they have their dots connected. So then we have to look at, well, what are they looking for next? And that's, I think, all of this, we have to make sure that our messaging is now going to address what are people looking for after they get what they think they needed from AI.
Nicole: Yeah.
Sarah: So, I mean, for this particular messaging point, now we're asking, well, okay, if they've already connected the dots, well, now what does what do they need? Well, there's a there's definitely not a single way to go about this. Like I think it you could go go about it with more of kind of an authority experience expertise angle of like knowing which dots are, you know, which dots are the important dots. Like what what do you have to do with, you know, what is your exact right next step? When you have to lean on authority, like I've I I had authority being like 10 years of practice or helped X number of patients with this specific condition. And because and I know, like knowing not only connecting dots, but if you think you have connected the dots, like I can tell you what to do next with that information. So basically, we just have to move beyond being able to interpret information. Like, I mean, yes, I wrote a whole entire website once where the doctor was like, I am a medical detective. That's how I'm positioning myself as a medical detective. So many of my past clients as well, right? Medical detective. Like that is something that is absolutely taking that role. And so we have to get creative, right? And so it's like, there, yes, you can lean on the authority piece for this one. I think it depends on what type of practitioner, what your messaging angle is. Like, you can even lean on intuition for this one. It's like I can know by looking at you, you know, exactly what you need or whatever. Like, this is gonna depend on what is your unique genius. This is where you have to bring in some sort of unique genius that is that is kind of your your thing. Yeah. That is why would they need your help after they've already connected all the dots?
Nicole: Yeah. And I'd like to see practitioners like leaning into this and not leaning away or going like shame-based of just like, oh, you know, you've like, I bet you were on Chat GPT with your symptoms. Like, why not just like like lean into what's already happening, right? Assume like have that be part of your marketing messaging, right? Like you were up at 3 a.m., like we've all been on chat GPT talking through symptoms. This is where chat got you to. I can take you the rest of the way. Like, I'd love to see more practitioners like in not even necessarily embracing AI, but like meeting their patients where they're at, knowing that everybody is, for the most part, throwing their data, wearable data, testing data. I mean, I did lab tests last year. The first thing I did was throw them into Chat GPT. I was actually annoyed I had a functional medicine. This little little slide note, I was working with a functional medicine practitioner, and my lab tests came in and I like wanted immediate access to them. She's like, oh no, we'll wait until next week. And I'm just like, no, I want to throw them into Chat GPT and see what it says, right? Before it get on, because I, because this isn't my personality, I wanted to be ahead before I even sat down to talk to her. I was just like, I was annoyed. I kept working with her for that reason because I'm just like, okay, I'm paying money because I want to, my personality wants to look this over ahead of time, do some research on my own with AI, then walk into my thing and saying, okay, now how do we work together? Yeah. I'm educated, you're educated, you are like, I'm trusting you to help me put a plan together and help keep me on track, right? And part of it is just like, so I don't know, I just say that as like a real because I'm not a practitioner, so I can talk from the other side where it was frustrating to me to have work with a practitioner who like I didn't get have access to that data ahead of time. Like I'm someone who would pay for my own lab tests just to get that information, right? Run it through AI, and then look for a practitioner who can help me. So like I'd I'd love to see practitioners like almost expecting that this is what their patients are gonna do. And absolutely.
Sarah: And I think that it's exactly what you're getting at is like to really stay relevant with your patients, you have to, you have to be aware of what the technology can do. You have to be, you have to, it comes into your messaging. Like I loved what you said, where it's like, hey, I know you've used Chat GPT. You've probably gotten a lot of information, you've probably pieced together a lot of what you already need. Yeah. But now, you know, I think the next messaging point I had on that post was like, I'll give you a comprehensive plan. Again, like that's not gonna cut it because chat GPT can be like, oh, here's your menu plan, doesn't have gluten, doesn't have sugar, blah, blah, blah. You know, here's your workout plan. It goes through all of the all of the muscle groups. And so instead of, yeah, instead of connect the dots comprehensive plan, it has to be, you know, I can think of, for example, one of my clients who's a acupuncture or, you know, medicine, and it's like, she formulates these herbal formulas that you literally cannot get anywhere else. They're they're like so specific to your exact, you know, Chinese patterns, and they get it's like instant energy or like you like really good results because they're totally customized. And it's sort of like she has to lean into that where it's like, oh, here's my you like I have mastered my craft in this certain area, and it's like you're gonna get this fully customized formula that is like literally not anything you could get anywhere else, you know. Or another client of mine is a naturopathic doctor, really good at classical homeopathy. And it's like she can sit there and like see and know exactly what question to ask to know exactly what remedy you need. And it's just like this level of, I guess I call it, yeah, mastery of your craft. But it's like you need to own it, right? You need to let realize, well, what is that? What is my mastery? What is my unique genius? And really own it. Like rather than going back on, oh, the six tenets of naturopathic medicine, we look at the root cause, like you have to dial in, like owning what makes you really different.
Nicole: Oh, I love that. And it might be, I know some of your examples were kind of felt a little bit more like concrete, like homeopathic remedies or herbal tinctures. But I think that that practitioners can also just lean on the quality of their relationships, right? So it's like, you know, so what as we move more into the AI age, it's just like cool, like the dots are connected, the plan is there, but like what's worth paying for is the relationship, right?
Sarah: The exactly that was the third messaging point of oh yeah, of like of oh, I'll listen. Like you'll feel heard. Which I this one's borderline because it, yeah, it is relationship. That's similar to saying relationship, but it's an AI.
Nicole: This is why AI is addictive, is because we feel heard. I definitely feel heard at three in the morning when I'm like, I can't sleep, and I'm like, hey, I can I talk to you about this like CEO question that I have. And it's just like, yes, I'm here.
Sarah: Like all heard. So I just feel like that's not a differentiating factor anymore. Yeah. But like you were saying, like the community, the connection, doing it with someone, the relational, that's different at all. Yes, you feel heard by the AI, but they're not walking alongside of you. At least not yet.
Nicole: Yeah.
Sarah: And I think that's gonna become bigger and bigger is like building a sense of community in your practice.
Nicole: I think so too. Yeah. That's in you said something. This is like slightly off topic, but like you had a a post recently about like maybe it was a story, can't remember. It was you were saying something along the lines of like, you don't want to look, you personally don't want to look and see like what are the top trends or what are the top content that's coming out, because like you want to be in your lane, like who you are, right? And so, like, I think that's kind of what what your messaging points make me think of is just like this is our opportunity. And as a branding person, this was always really like the point of branding is just like how do you distinguish yourself in a sea of sameness, right? Like when I started out, it was just like every, you know, yoga studio and every this is like have a green leaf, right? Have a lotus flower. And it's like, like, where do you zag where everybody's zaging? Right. And this is like AI is actually giving us an opportunity to be more ourselves in our content and the way that we treat our patients and the way that we like build our brand, right? And I think that's I actually think that's really empowering. Totally. To like not have the same message as everybody. Yep.
Sarah: I don't think I think AI, you know, it's a cultural shift that is if we can think of it, yeah, we're all interested in how do I use it, what's a project, what's a skill, which is helpful to know. But I really think it's more interesting to think of like how is this totally shifting, how we find each other, how we communicate, what we think we need, what we'll pay money for, like all the bigger mindset shifts that it carries along with it.
Nicole: Which you reminded me of another question I wanted to ask you before we wrap up is another piece of content that you had that I thought was awesome was something talking about how we all have two ICAs now. So we've got the humans that we work with, and then we have their AI agents. That was like the way that you described it, which I guess we could probably think about as like AI search engines as well, right? Like ChatGPT. I've had a few sales calls recently where people are like, Oh, ChatGPT recommended you. Well, first it came to a sales call. She was gonna cancel the call. And she said, Oh, ChatGPT convinced me that I should still get on this call with you, that you were like the right person. So it's like, Oh, you're crushing it. That has to be a hoophole, right? Like, so talk us through that a little bit. So we've got the humans and we've got the AI. Like, how should we be thinking about content, copywriting to serve both?
Sarah: Yeah, I mean, I really think this has to be a complete separate episode because it's so human. But and I mean, I am not an expert on AI search engine optimization, PEO, all of those things. I'm like, that's not my area of expertise, but it's it's it influences all of marketing, it influences your content, and something I'm really, really interested in. But yeah, so there's this. In fact, I just saw a statistic that there are more AI agents surfing the internet right now than there are humans. And yeah, I know. And now that's how Google works. And so it's not only when people go into Chat GPT, it's when they just go to Google. AI agents are going out and searching for stuff. And, you know, I mean, I think this means a few things. Like one, yes, there's all of the strategies of what can we actually do for AI to reference us and recommend us, like just happen to you, which is that's the whole other conversation that I would love to bring in a separate expert on, to be honest.
Nicole: Yeah.
Sarah: But but even when it comes to your messaging, I feel like this is a place where it's actually really helpful to think of because it forces clarity. It forces you to be really clear in exactly what you're saying, because you need to make sure that an AI agent is going to know what you mean. And usually if it's easier for an AI agent to understand, it's also easier for a human to understand. And we never really just even thought of it. And so, because we maybe used to think, oh, I want a headline that sounds really warm and welcoming and aspirational. But if your headline is warm and welcoming, aspirational, and it's just like something about you know, better health, yeah, that's not telling the AI agent, oh, this is a naturopathic practice focused on women's hormones in LA, you know, and it's like you have to be the AI wants like crystal clear details, numbers, credentials, you know. And I think when we're forced to do that thinking through this lens, it actually makes our messaging better for humans as well. And so, I mean, I think it's kind of a good nudge.
Nicole: Yeah, because we tend to kind of go on the side of like wanting to be like clever, or I know this on the branding side with like naming a business, or where I'm like the first thing I'm I'm going is like, I don't know what this is, right? If I don't know what this is, if I don't know, and then I get to your home page and at the top, I still don't know what it is because your headline is just like you want to feel better, right? It's just this really like generic aspirational, yeah, like or like let's get to the root cause, right? Like, how many times have we seen that and no like shade, or if like that's what your headline says, you know, at the top of your website. But like, you know, AI agents, I like what you're saying, like they're they're forcing us to get more clear because they're also surfing the web. So when I say to Claude, hey, can you pick out a functional medicine specialist to work with me and it knows about me, it's gonna say, Oh, you know, here's Dr. So and so. She's great with women who are 43, going through perimenopause, live in your area, right? But like they can't see that if like all of her content is just like a bit wishy-washy or cutesy or clever, or like it's you know, I like that it's kind of inspiring us to get clearer. I saw I heard somebody say something the other day about like your marketing, marketing that's so clear that a drunk grandma could understand it. It's like would our drunk grandma like be able to like see and understand, like if she, you know, somehow looking at your Instagram or going through your website, would she be able to understand what it is that you do? And that's the pressure test. I love that. That's the pressure test, and that's a real skill, right? And so you've honed that skill over a decade plus. It's that's what great copywriting is is like how to distill a message down that drunk grandma can understand it, but also you know, that people feel something. So I feel like that sweet spot of like, you know, an AI agent could understand fully what it is that you do to be able to recommend it, but then your human ICA understand it, but also feels inspired.
Sarah: It has to do feel something, right? Because as soon as they see that recommendation in their chat GPT, they're not gonna call you directly from there, they're still gonna go to your website. Yeah, so that's why it has to meet both of those criteria.
Nicole: Yeah, I think that's so smart. And everybody, if you're not already following Sarah on Instagram, you should definitely do that. I'm always reposting your content and saving it, and it's just so good. Uh, where can people find it? Find you, right? Like, does you have any freebies that they can grab?
Sarah: So you can find me. My website is wellnesswriter.com, and that's where I always have my, you know, whatever my latest freebie of the moment happens to be. I'm also on Substack. And so, like this, I have an article on this post that inspired you to reach out to me, the messaging points that are obsolete, that's also on my Substack. And there's we can maybe link to that article because I think I have even like a prompt that helps you audit your messaging. That's great. I do your messaging. Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah, because I want something proactive that people can go in and they're just like, okay, I'm probably you're probably using one of those three messages. Maybe you're using all three. And so having that prompt where they can go through and have, you know, Claude or Taty. Exactly. Like, where are you saying that you'll connect the dots for people or leaning on that a little bit too heavily as like the main thing that you do? Right. So this is, you know, we're not like telling people to dismantle completely all of your messaging, but like audit, you know, some places where maybe you're relying on that a little bit too much, where somebody will look at that and say, Well, I already have Claude that does it for me.
Sarah: I already have Claude that answers my factions. It's not like, oh, you can't say that you give a comprehensive plan because I'm sure you do. It's just that like that can't be your main differentiating factor. Yeah. Awesome.
Nicole: Well, go and grab, get on the Substack with Sarah, and then wellner.com is where they can find you on your website. And then how can people work with you? You've got like a membership.
Sarah: Yeah. So Aligned is my core program, which really teaches the marketing system to run on your voice, aligned with your messaging. And I'm reopening that. It'll be open evergreen at by the end of July. And yeah, so that'll be always available. And then I also have a community for anyone who has that aligned program, just that's like the implementation side of things. And we, you know, full support, copy reviews, coaching calls. So we have the community side of it as well.
Nicole: Sarah, it was so nice chatting with you. We don't always get to do this, especially not going like deep like this. So it's been such a pleasure to have you on here. Yeah, you too. It was great to chat with you. Thanks, Nicole. Awesome. Thank you everybody for listening. See you next time. Bye. Okay, that's it for this episode. If you're sitting there realizing that patients are coming in just fine, but things are slipping through the cracks behind the scenes, the follow-up, the systems, the back end that's all held together by you and some sticky notes and a prayer. I've got a few free resources that'll help you see exactly where those gaps are. They're all linked in the show notes, so just go grab whatever fits you where you're at right now. Also, come follow me on Instagram too and hang out over there. I share a lot of uh good resources at Nicole.leadbetterHQ. And if you're past the figure it out myself stage and you just want a team to run the operational side of your practice for you, yay! That's exactly what we do at LeadBetterHQ. We run the operations and intelligence layer behind the practice so that patients you already have don't fall through the cracks, right? We we like to make sure that we're working with um what's actually coming in. So if that's a thing that you've been looking for, book a call with us. I'd love to chat with you. The link's in the show notes, and um thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I'll see you in the next one. Bye now.