Nicole: Hi, and welcome to another episode of Lead Better Podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Harlow, and today I'm chatting with Elyse Wagner, a former licensed therapist, certified nutritionist, and health coaching academy co-founder who walked away from training aspiring health coaches to do something more important — helping health coaches actually get their work out into the world. For 15 years, she's worked with more than 6,000 health coaches globally, helping them cut through the noise, find their clarity and confidence, and create businesses that work for their lives. What she's actually known for is simpler than that: helping you uncover the gifts already inside you and get your work out into the world. No borrowed blueprints, no hustle and grind, just deep, practical, nourishing business and leadership-first strategy that aligns with your life. And I have to say, I loved this conversation. We talked about health coaching, where things were when Elyse got started, where things are now. And really, she taught me something that completely turned starting a business — thinking about getting started in a business where we think about picking a niche or building a website or needing a brand as like a first thing — she totally flipped it on its head for me in the most beautiful way. And of course, at the end, we talk about human design and gene keys and astrology because you all know that I love that topic. So without further ado, let's meet Elyse. Hey Elyse, I'm so excited to have you here with me on the show.
Elyse: Oh, thank you. I'm honored to be here. Thank you so much.
Nicole: Yes. Okay, so I want to get started with this question. So you've been in the health coaching world for a long time, right? Like how many years have you been in the health coaching world? Would you say?
Elyse: I would say formally — gosh, so starting like back in 2013, that is — so my god, my math — it's been moved. 13 years.
Nicole: Yeah. Really, when you come on the podcast, I don't usually put people on the spot with math right away.
Elyse: Math is not my strongest. And my dad, of course, is a math teacher. So we know how that all went.
Nicole: But no, yeah, the health coaching — it's been a while, right? So you've been in here for a while. So what I want to know is from when you got started to now, what are some of the ways that you see the health coaching industry change over these years? Like, what is it like now compared to what it was when you got started?
Elyse: Yeah. Well. So gosh, this is a really great question. And I'll say there's a couple — got started like in the health coaching space, I would say we were in a very like niche space with not just health coaching, but also functional medicine. No one really knew what it was, right? So it's like you kind of like with these two big things of like, okay, I gotta explain both of these things, right, to a lot of people. And I think in some respects, you know, functional medicine has gained a lot more — just people are more aware of it, they know about it, but there's still a lot of people who don't, right? And same thing about health coaching, I think that people are a little bit more aware, but there's still a ton of education that we need to do as a whole to really educate everyone — the public, the even the medical community, you know, conventional, non-conventional, holistic, et cetera — on what health coaching really is for, how it can serve, how it can help not just the clients or the patients, but the providers too. So, you know, I think we've made some decent strides over the years. And I think I've also just seen a lot of health coaches, especially during the pandemic, you know, come in and get certified in something. So we had a big surge of like, okay, let's get a lot of health coaches. And on one hand, that was great, especially for the certifying schools. And then on the other hand, and really listening to coaches on the front end as well as on the back end, meaning like when people would come into the programs, when people would leave the programs, I really listened to like, okay, what are you wanting? What are you needing on both ends? And, you know, when they left, being extra — and I've been here too in my own personal experience leaving grad school — so it's across all industries and not just like saying, oh, it's the health coaching industry, but really, you know, kind of a lot of these coaches saying, like, now what do I do? Where do I go? And really feeling, I would say, you know, frustrated, disillusioned, unsupported, because there's not — there's really a huge gap between, cool, we've got certified health coaches. And yeah, there is maybe it's like some corporate opportunities, but they're also paying pretty, pretty low on the totem pole. We're talking like $16, $17 an hour, maybe, maybe 20, 25 bucks, you know, or there's a pathway of like, okay, you can go and create your own business. But then that is a whole nother skill set and mountain to traverse and climb that if you didn't go into it being an entrepreneur or having an entrepreneurial skill set or background, you know, you're kind of in for a rude awakening. So that's the area that I, you know, really kind of honed in on and saw this gap. And I was like, I want to support these people because they are some of the most heart-centered human beings that I've ever met. I'm sure you feel so. And a lot of them have come to this field, whether it was their own personal health journey or a family member's. And they really are coming back to want to serve and to want to help and give back in a way. It's a beautiful thing, you know. And, you know, and then they're kind of just like, ooh, yeah, don't — there's a lot more I have to do. And so I know that that creates a lot of frustration. And I even felt that when I graduated grad school, not as a health coach. I graduated with a as a licensed mental health counselor. I was a certified nutritionist, you know, but those were the options, like go into like a clinical route or go in and start your own private practice. So that's still kind of like where we're at right now. And health coaching still is not a licensed field. It's still a lot of the wild, wild west out there. And, you know, I think there's a lot more to come in the sense of putting some more standards and structures in place to really create a pathway for coaches. So I'll just stop there first.
Nicole: No, no, it's — you like have a lot of questions growing. It's making me think of, so like a lot of clients that I've worked with even over the years are medically licensed professionals, maybe their functional medicine professionals who have actually kind of pivoted to working with clients as a health coach, too. So you have like kind of two different populations in there where you have people who are just like their first training is as a health coach. And then I've even had clients who are like MDs giving up their licenses to be able to work as a health coach so that they have more opportunities and ways to work with clients than they ever did, right? And so you've got these two different like populations kind of brewing together. But I'm curious, like for somebody who's — let's just say the avatar of somebody who has just gone through their certification, they're a brand new health coach. What's a piece — like where do you want them to get started? Right. Let's say they're — I think a lot of people listening to this podcast are probably on the side of like building a business. Okay, because they're listening to Lead Better. So then some ways they're building a business. So I think we can not necessarily talk about the population looking for a job, maybe like a hospital or something like that, but someone who's like a health coach starting their business. Are you telling people, you know, like this is where we want to start thinking about their niche? Are we building a website? Are we thinking starting in a completely different spot?
Elyse: Right. Yeah. So this is just, you know, me, my framework. Yeah, this is where I want to dig in. I work — we don't start with any of that. And there's a very valid reason why, both personally and professionally, I've seen it play out. I'll tell you where we do start. We start with values. So, you know, the way that I think about it, and I have like a model for this — so let me see if I can kind of paint a picture. Actually, hold on. I'm gonna grab something really quick. Your time, just give me a second. It won't make sense. It'll be so good. Okay. Coming, coming, coming. Thank God for fake flowers. Okay. You know, and this is like really what a lot of people focus on is this beautiful, gorgeous flower and the end result, right? It's like the transformation that they get for their client. And this, you know, right below the flower, right? We'll just say in this area, is typically where a lot of providers and even health coaches will focus on. And right here is basically the behaviors. You know, here's the things to do, change things, right? This is like having a food diary and taking more magnesium, little things that they're checking off, like the boxes. And for the most part, and in this I am generalizing, so this isn't for everyone, but what I've seen for the most part is that this is kind of where you cut it off, right? Like someone just snipped off the stem, but we don't remember, like, or we don't necessarily see it, that we have an entire stem here, and let's just pretend that the stem has roots and it's connected around. And so as we go down the stem, those the results are connected to specific actions or behaviors that people are taking. Those behaviors, if we go a little bit deeper, so this is kind of like bringing in the functional method, the root causes. We go deeper, let's just say this section right here, this is filled with our feelings and our emotions and our needs. And this is an area that what I've again found is not — especially providers and health coaches who haven't done their own personal work and also who have not the deeper mental health psychology background, and also just who are not comfortable with talking about feelings and emotions — we hit a little bit of a stop gap here. And we're missing, we are missing so much below the surface. And so feelings, emotions, needs, and what drives all of that, we go a little bit deeper is our thoughts. What are the thoughts that we're having? We go a little bit deeper there, and we go to our belief systems, right? And belief works, and this is, I think this is a belief that a lot of health coaches sometimes hold on to is that, oh, well, I'm not a therapist, a social worker, a mental health counselor, so I can't work on beliefs with my clients. That's out of scope. That's not true. It's just not true. You absolutely can, you just never have been showed how to do it and how to do it within scope of practice. So, and this is, I think, an area that we don't dig into much because a lot of coaches haven't been taught how to do it. And then we go deeper, what's connecting and to connect and driving everything is our value systems. That's the roots. And so we can go downstream and start to really understand the roots, the values, like what's causing the belief systems that you're having or the thoughts that you're having or the feelings, and which is, you know, really just moving the whole train along, right? When we can get down to the roots and really look at those roots, the values, and be like, okay, wait, are those even values that are gonna serve you and support you to your higher vision and where you want to go? So those are kind of like two and one. You got to kind of do values and vision a little bit together. Figure out, okay, here's where I want to be. What are the values that are gonna trickle upstream to get me to that new vision? And so it's like — just like you know, heavy third, this is like a Louise Hay thing — like, thoughts are just thoughts, they can be changed, they're just things, so are beliefs, so are values. And look at our value systems. And I have found that on a personal level, really taking a hard look at your values and how you are acting those out, being in those values on a daily basis can help you determine, you know, is this serving me? Is this not serving me? And then it can support you in building out your business values. And the last thing I'll say before I'll just be quiet for a second is, you know, anytime I'm making a business decision or choice, I know there's so many shiny things out there that can get us totally distracted. I'm like, oh, now more than ever, right? The noise is so deafening. And we're so sometimes we're so just as a society disconnected from our own inner wisdom. And so I always say, like, your values are your compass, you know, they are there to kind of just like guide you. And I always like throw my decisions against my values wall and be like, okay, does this stick? And if it doesn't stick, then it's out of alignment, right? If it aligns with my values, maybe not every single one, right? But for the most part, you're in alignment. And that feeling, I hate to use the word should, but that feeling really gets to be more of peace and calm instead of chaos.
Nicole: Yeah. Like a nice deep word. Yeah, I feel like just as I'm listening to you, it's just so — I love how you've really, A, this is the first time I've really heard it this explained this way. And so I appreciate you sharing this with all of us. And I love how you've really flipped getting started on its head because everything that I've learned, everything that I've seen starts at the top of that flower where you're like, okay, you know, what's the transformation? I mean, not a lot of people aren't even really starting from there. Just like, what's the transformation I'm gonna get? It's just more like, okay, what niche am I gonna be in? I see a lot of clients just starting right there, where it's just like, what's my niche? Perimenopausal woman. Okay, how do I help them? I need them to get to sleep better, I need to get them to eat better, I need to get — so it's starting right where you said, where with the kind of to-do list of like, this is what I want you to do, and then the transformation, right? And so the way that you just turn it on its head is wild and awesome. And I want to unpack that a little bit because so what I'm hearing you say is like you're kind of starting with like what are your personal values as a practitioner? But how does that relate to your client? Like, should we be thinking, okay, where do my values match? Are we looking for clients that match our values? Right. So for myself, freedom is a big value. Oh, yeah, me too. So, like, yeah, and I love it. Like, I'm like freedom, joy and freedom. Joy and freedom, yeah, like right there. And I do tend to attract, I think, clients who value the same thing as well, but I may not say that explicitly, but I'm wondering is, are we thinking in this framework, like we want to try to attract clients that also have similar values as well?
Elyse: Well, it's a great question. I don't know if I have like the right answer for it. What I can say about is, okay, a couple of things. One, I think it's always really wise to know your own values, you know. And here's the cool thing about values. And I teach this — this is, I have a whole course on my website. It's NBHWC approved for CE credits as well. But I teach it and then I teach it so that you can do it for yourself, and then you can actually license it out to use it on your clients. Because what a great exercise to teach your clients about their values. What do they value? And the cool thing about it is you can go from a 30,000-foot view, like what are your overall life values? Like, right? Joy, freedom. I mean, those are definitely up there. But then you can even rinse and repeat and go a little bit deeper. Okay, let's look at the wellness wheel, for example. Let's go a little bit deeper into your — what are your financial values? What are your values around health and food? You know, and that can — those two intersect quite often, right? So you can go deep and what are your values around relationships? And so I love values because about it is I don't think it's talked about enough. I'll never forget one of my — and she's past, Maeve Craven. So she used to run Functional Medicine Ireland, and she and I met at a functional medicine conference, and we sat down and she's, you know, Irish, and we had a cup of tea. And I felt so connected to her. And I said — our the opening line was, our question was, what are your values? Like she asked you that. Oh, I asked her that. You asked her that. Oh yeah, but she like — we were aligned, and she was like, I love that you just — and we just talked about that. It was a deeper conversation, and obviously that's not something you just go up to someone in your house, but it just — you know, so many people don't actually know their values that they're, you know, and what's really navigating their life and if those are really serving them. And, you know, to your point about like a lot of coaches just jump into okay, I need the niche, I need the website, I need this. Well, let's actually just back up for a second because what I've found is that when we rush into something about what we think we actually might need or what someone else has told us we need, I find that a lot of people are working from someone else's framework, from someone else telling them who to be, what to be, when to do it, why to do it, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And at the end of the day, I'm like, well, what about your blueprint and your framework? And that's really part of your own personal values. And I'm not gonna tell you what your values are. You're gonna discover that for yourself, you know? I'm gonna guide you to find those. But I find that when we are acting from our values or being in our values, all the awareness and the decisions and the choices help to create better outcomes. And I have seen people — I don't subscribe to the whole, and I know there's a body of research around it, and that's wonderful, but I don't subscribe to the whole like 66 days or 90 days or 30 days to change a habit. I have seen habits start to shift from a sustainable standpoint almost — I don't want to say instantaneously, that sounds like almost like really clickbaity, but just like very quickly. And the reason why, and I've asked, you know, my students and my coaches, what do you think changed? And every time it's been because my values — I got in alignment with my values. And figured out what was important to me. And that allowed me to take sustainable action because that was the other thing. It's like, yeah, we can, you know, coaches and providers can sit all day and be like, okay, this is my focus, this is my niche, you know, and then go on and try to support clients in that specific area and maybe get some progress, right? Or see some results. But what I'm more focused in is not that quick fix, it's the sustainability of all these behavior changes over time. And we really sustain that. And I think that this is a fantastic model that holds the container.
Nicole: Yeah. It's making me think — this isn't a personal example that's not business related, but I've just recently, like this summer, kind of started like a fitness journey. And because freedom is a value of mine and something that I love to do is travel, like I'm not a — I'm a Taurus, we're a bit lazy. Like, I'm not gonna say that I'm like, and I'm not a type A person either. So I'm like not the person to like get up at 5 a.m. I don't grind through a routine, I'm just not wired that way. And I'm fine that way. So it's like how to — so my question for myself is like how to have like a fitness routine that aligns with my values that I can get behind so that I can install that habit almost instantly and feel excited about it most days. And for me, it came — what came up for me was like this idea around adventure ready. So this isn't about like losing weight, it isn't about like even if that's a knock-on effect of it, it's not even about getting healthier. For me, the value that it lined up with is like I want to be able to say yes to adventures when they come my way. And in order to do that — so if that means hiking a mountain, going on a trek, going — so I can say yes when the opportunity aligns, that's very different than any other fitness plan that I've ever seen because it's personal to me. So then when I go to Orange Theory or I'm at the gym, I'm not thinking about PRs or weight loss. I'm not even thinking about how long I can run. I'm thinking, can this — is this getting me further to saying yes? I got chills when I say it because it's so aligned, right? So suddenly I'm excited. I'm like trying my nails, right?
Elyse: I just want to like reflect this to you. And I can feel that even as you are talking with me and like you're getting excited about it. Like, you know, your eyes are like, you know, open. You're — and that's a really positive sign, right? Yeah. You're not looking at the data and all the numbers and I'm not saying that doesn't matter.
Nicole: Well it becomes exciting. Now it's exciting to see that because every mile, every mile in the treadmill is now another mile I can go on a mountain, right? It's like one step closer to like hiking in Switzerland or walking the Camino del Santiago in Spain, right? And so I just use that as an example because that's where I'm connecting with what you're saying. And I think people listening — these are things that their coaching clients might — because I want to make it applicable too, right? Like these are things kind of like when you can bring — I think this kind of brings me to like another question I wanted to ask you and I think it's related. Like, so we have health coaches that come out with certifications. They've got all the knowledge and they still can't get their clients to change. What's going on there, right? Like we think about protocols and here are your steps and do a food diary and things still aren't changing. Is it related to the values or is there something else going on here?
Elyse: Yeah, well, okay, a couple things. I love — so love the example that you gave and how lit up that you got and, you know, and that just speaks to the feeling, right, and the emotion, and emotion is really just energy in motion. And so but okay, so what — why can't clients change, right? And I think that that could be very different for whatever the situation is going on with each — there could be a million and one reasons. You know, it could be the client-coach relationship, you know, the trust, the bonding, the rapport — there's that whole aspect of it. But let's just say that you've got that dialed in, you feel really comfortable with each other, et cetera, that's good rapport. If a coach came to me and was like, I just can't — and this has happened in my own programs and things like that. I'm trying to think of like an actual tangible example. I had a coach who is coaching a client and she clearly wants to make some shifts and some changes around her food and her exercise. But every single time that they start to broach the topic of food and exercise, this client visibly gets like constricted, like unless like a wall is put up, right. And so this health coach — she is wonderful, she's got a lot of tools in her tool belt — but then she kind of came stumped to one of our mentorship calls and she's like, Elyse, I just don't really know what to do. And I said, you actually just — you have the answer already. Again, she was kind of stumped and because I'm not about like giving people the answers and I just reflected back to her — sometimes that's okay to not know what to do. Especially when you're working with a client around health coaching because at the end of the day it's really about the client's life, really just like here you go, like here — it's your health decision. What do you want to do? Right. So like they're not there to prescribe or diagnose or treat or like give advice or anything like that. And she was still looking at me like, oh, I don't know what you're talking about. I said, well, I know it's vulnerable and that is really — I look at that as a strength and a leadership skill — and I was like, what if you just kind of looked at her and said, gosh, I'm a little stumped here. I'm not quite sure where to go from here. And reflect back as far as like an observation. It's, you know, my observation is every time we go to start talking about this goal and some of the things that you want to work on, there's a hesitancy, and maybe I'm reading that wrong, you could let me know, right. And she just was like, oh my God, that's — yeah, exactly what I'm gonna do. Because, you know, and so I think sometimes we don't give ourselves — this is collectively, whether you're the coach or the client or whatever side of the couch you're sitting on — I don't think we give ourselves enough credit that we actually do have the answers inside of us. It's about bringing it back to ourselves and like, well, you know, what's in alignment with you, you know, what — where can we go from here? Right. And so bringing it back to them, bringing it back to their values, what they want to work on, and starting to — when health coaches are trained specifically on like how do you go into some of the thought patterns and belief patterns and value systems and how do you bridge the gap and bring that up in conversation so you can kind of dig in a little bit deeper and support them with some of the deeper things. And what was so interesting and just kind of close the loop on that is she did — she came back and she used that in a conversation or a session with her client and her client ended up coming up with — they got reconnected to values. And she ended up coming up with her own plan and leaving lit up. Even — I remember now that I'm telling this story — this health coach told me that she could even see this woman's body language change, just like, you know, kind of constricted, just kind of like looking off, like not engaged, and it's like, whoa. When I think when we start bringing it to this level, we really start engaging people in a completely different way because they're engaged with themselves.
Nicole: Yeah, that's a good thing, that's a really good thing. I love that kind of coming back to like your why or your values, it's just like it can be such powerful work, right. And I just — so I was looking when I'm preparing for these interviews I like to just like look over guests' Instagrams and see if there's anything like that you're posting that catches my eye. And one of the things that you posted that I love is you said something along the lines — and I've got it written down here — it was like embodying the work is one of the biggest predictors of whether a client succeeds. And I wanted to ask you, is that from the health coach's perspective, is that from the client's perspective? Like, and I actually, I'd like to talk about health coaches embodying the work too. What did that mean for you?
Elyse: Yeah, so I love that you brought that up because I wanted to circle back to that too. I think that's another piece of it — if your clients are not getting the results that they're wanting, I think there is an aspect of like also, you know, doing a little self-reflection as well and what is the inner work that you've done, the capacity that you have built for yourself. And this is again another thing — when we don't really talk about the inner capacity, embodiment — I know some of these words are like very like, what does that mean? Yeah, it's kind of out there, but it really isn't. And it is really about embodying, like being the coach, right? Like Gandhi says, be the change. And so like, okay, well, what is that change that you really want to see in others and yourself? And then where in your life can you start to take some of those steps to do that inner work, whether it is, you know, building up more self-trust and so what does that look like on a daily basis to you? Why is that important? You know, I — one of my coaches was sharing that she was, I don't know, giving me a scenario or something, and I said, well, I'm just curious, what else did you suggest or come up with and collaborate, like on what this client could do? And she's like, I was thinking about maybe suggesting journaling and all that. And so I just paused and I said, well, do — have you done journaling? Do you journal? Yeah. And she said no. And I said, okay. So I think when we start to, you know, and I encourage her to like, I'm gonna give you some journaling prompts and you can do that with them, what you would like, you know. But I think it helps when we can experience and — not saying we have to like go and experience every single thing that someone might go through — but to experience it ourselves, to be doing some of the things with the lifestyle activities, like, you know, if you're a coach and you're coaching around sleep and sleep hygiene but you're up until midnight doom scrolling on social and sleeping in and not doing like a morning routine, but you're encouraging and supporting your clients to do that — that's not really in alignment. That's not really an embodiment. And so there's a disconnect there. And I would say there's a disconnect even though the client might not know that there is an internal disconnect that the coach has, and there's an energetic exchange.
Nicole: I think they've — that feel that, yeah, they might feel that, right. Like, and I think we've all seen — not to throw anybody under the bus, but we've all seen people in the health space where, like, you know, I may see their Instagrams or their stories and be like, that person doesn't seem very healthy. Like either the way their lifestyle is organized, the way that they're, like, you know, seem pretty stressed out, seem pretty anxious, seem like they're not really — and that's just me, that's my own observation, right. Or they don't visibly seem healthy, right, or they're not like actively — I mean, this is and I want to ask your opinion on this too, because something that I like talk to my clients about around like social media is I'm like, your people want to see you walking your talk, right? They want to see you actively out there. Like if you're talking about morning walks, it's very similar to what you're saying, and just like record yourself, and this is where we can get some social content as well, is like record yourself doing your morning walk with your dog. Right? Record yourself actively out in the world doing the things that you would like your clients to be doing — you making a healthy meal, show your healthy meal, you're doing your meditation. You don't have to — I don't know, I mean, this is a whole nother conversation, but I do feel like we get to, as business owners and content creators, like we get to decide what parts of your life do you want to make public. Like, I have pretty clear boundaries around like things that I'm comfortable sharing online and things that — like, I don't know, me and my family, I never put that on Instagram, that's just my own boundary, right. Like people can choose their own. So it's not like you have to share every part of your day, but I'd like people listening to think about, like, when you are posting content, like how many times during the week are you sharing things that you are doing that you're asking — because your clients are watching, they're watching, people who want to hire you are watching. And so if you can — I have a client who are like, they get up in the morning and they do these like sunrise hikes, and I'm just like, yes, put that out there, right. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't even have to be aesthetic or Instagrammable. Right. It's just you doing the work in public. You can have that be private too.
Elyse: So I don't know if that's something that you agree with as well or you would — well, yeah, I think that's even like a value, like really understand what do you value, you know, as far as on social, right? It's like I've got some boundaries around social as well. And at the same time, you know, I want to just reiterate for everyone, like, and I say this to my coaches as well, like, this is not about perfection. We're not looking to be perfect, right. And I know a lot of coaches say to me, well, I can't do the thing — whatever it is, send the email, get on a podcast, you name it — until I X, Y, or Z, or until my diagnosis gets resolved or whatever. And my encouragement back to them is like, first of all, like, you've got to meet yourself where you're at, just like you would meet your client. You know, I said that comes first, and like, what is your capacity? What are you able to actually handle? And at the same point, like, I always look at it like, you — there are more than enough people to help. You do not need to be perfect, right? There's — you can always just like reach back and help. You know, you — yes, I like that, reach back and help. I'm always like, you got to be a few steps ahead of yourself and you don't have to be perfect. And I think sometimes too — and I use this as content, and if you scroll back enough you'll see — like, there, you know, we're all going through our health journey. That doesn't end. It is a continuous thing, just like leadership. I'm like, there are levels to this thing, you know. And a few years ago I found myself in the emergency room and with my blood pressure was well over 200. I mean, they were very nervous about me. At the same time, you know, I — I took, I grow, snapped a photo myself, one for myself because I'm like, I want to remember this moment and I never want to be back here again. But at the same time, after they did all the testing and everything, they're like, nothing's wrong with you physically. And I'm like, yeah, but you didn't check me out mentally, emotionally, you know. They're tough, but I knew I had like a lot of my own inner work and things to process. And when I once got through that — and I did use that a little bit as my story for a while — I was on stories talking about that on a daily basis, like, here's what I'm doing every day from a really biopsychosocial environmental level to support myself and my body, you know. But I wasn't perfect, you know. And I did, when I finally did talk about it, I had gone through it enough where I had gathered some of the lessons that I could, you know, I could reach back enough to be like, hey, if you're struggling with this, you know, here's some of the things that I've learned, or if you know anyone else struggling. And so I think it can be really helpful that way too, to as you are embodying some of the new things that you're doing and, you know, just like anything new that you do, like riding a bike, you know, you're gonna have some wobbles, you're gonna have some falls, you're gonna — either way I always look at it like you either win or you learn or both. And so learn the lessons and pass those on, you know. That's valuable or invaluable, I think, content for people to understand, and it shows that you are human too, that it's okay to make mistakes. Like, I think a lot of, you know, especially in this like influencer wellness world, is like, oh, it's just so easy, just do this, just do that. Like, well, it is, it can be, and there's other things that come with it that I think we get to talk about too. Yeah, I think there's so much in there and it's really exciting to hear you say that because I think, A, I feel like this is a perfect moment to be more authentically yourself online.
Nicole: Yeah, because there's so much slop out there. So, like, people are craving authenticity, they're craving your realness, they're craving your ups and your downs and you trying new things out. Like, no one is expecting you to be perfect. And I will say also on the flip side of that, as someone who's been a business owner now for 18 years, so the better part of, you know, like my adult life, right, I've been doing this — I still struggle with exactly what you're saying, right. Like, and I'm not even very much — I wouldn't call myself a perfectionistic person. Like, I'm really like an A-minus is good, B-plus is good, like, if we get it there, like, we're good, right. And I that's — I've kind of lived my life in that philosophy, right. But I still feel that pressure of like, well, I can't share it unless it's perfect. Can't share me unless it's perfect. So I can't talk about, you know — so I'm just saying, like, kind of to resonate with anybody who's listening here, like, these are things that you may go through in waves as a business owner. Oh, yeah. And you're like, so many levels, right? You get to the level where you're just like, okay, I figured that out, and then you're like, damn it, I got another thing.
Elyse: It's like, it's like you take a little breather, like, because it — well, it sounds like you climb, you hike, like you say — you look at base camp for a little bit and you're like, oh, this feels so good. And then it's like, you know, oh, there's the next place to send to, right. And I say this, like, if coaches and even, you know, providers who are listening are choosing the entrepreneurial track — well done, like, congratulations, and also like, buckle up, buttercup, because this is the fast track to self-actualization.
Nicole: Self-actualization! Yes, self-discovery. Man, this has activated me in more ways than anything else has in my life, right? Challenged me, stretched me, helped me to learn more about myself — like, and that part is still unfolding, right. And to kind of bring it full circle around the values, I think, you know, pivoting this just a little bit more in a kind of marketing side, thinking about business owners and people kind of stepping into this space, like, I think what it really resonates with is when you know your values, because we said there's so much noise in this space, you can start looking at things and saying, okay — an example for myself, like, I may hire a business coach that tells me, I want you to do a webinar every week to get new people, and I can tell you now, because I'm aligned with my values, that will never work. Like, the fastest way to get me to want to not do something is make me have to do it every week. I'm not even talking about every day, just even every week, to say Friday at 12 o'clock I'm gonna sit down and be extroverted — and I will find all the ways to not do that. Right. And if there's certain things that — your house will be the cleanest it's ever been, right? Exactly. I'm like, at inbox zero. No. And I think for business owners and practitioners, like, you know, I think a good path is to kind of look and see the things that list — like, oh, these are the things that I would happily show up for every day. Or a couple times a week — like, I have those things where it's just like, podcast episodes, I love doing these. Right. I never have to — I almost never like, oh, I wish I was doing something else. Like, I love sitting down and having these conversations, but I'm not extroverted, I'm introverted. This is — but it's juicy and it's like, we're talking about — yeah, I always know what your human design is, you know? Oh my god, manifesting generator. Okay, emotional four six. Okay, which is always a conflict point for me because the four as an introvert — yeah, could be like — what my work's, my life's work is to be like connecting people and talking. When I do this, I'm talking to you, I feel so lit up. Yeah, I can tell, I can tell. It's my like, right? It's a total four line in you. But if I met someone at the supermarket, I'm like hiding down another — no, I'm not here for small talk.
Elyse: Yeah, when I go out in — like, I can be very extravagant and lit up on all of this, like the same thing. When I got in public or if I go to the gym, it's like black hat, guilt glasses, I'm like, don't — I just don't want to talk. I can't, you know. And it's an energetic thing, really. And I'm very highly sensitive. So I'm like, okay, but yeah, I'm a generator, one four, and sacral. So it's really interesting and I bring that into my marketing because when you were saying like, oh, someone told me to do X, Y, and Z, you know, it's like, yeah, I was agreeing, like, that's a hard no for me because that's not what lights me up. But if we were to say like, oh, Elyse, like, would you want to run office hours on a weekly basis where I am responding to people? Yeah, it's the responding thing. It's a huge part of it.
Nicole: Because it's aligned with my design. That — yes, see, now you've lit me up a lot because I've learned — and we talk about human design on this podcast a lot, even though it's an design podcast — yeah, I've just learned so much about myself, I think, and found ways to give myself so many permission slips, which I love. Like, I love a good permission slip to be like, oh, this is, you know — finding even being a six, right, where it's just like, I — or a manifesting generator, where I spent most of my life, I think even as a business owner, because I've had so many — I've pivoted so many times, I've had so many different businesses, so many ideas, and I used to look back and go, you know, that's — I used to see that as a flaw. I was like, that's a fatal flaw, I can't stick with anything. I'd do it and then I'd be like, yeah, and it's like, oh, wait, that's actually part of the design. How do you work with the design then? Like, how do I get — just give myself a deep breath around, like, okay, so then you can start looking around as you're building a team and say, well, there's no lack of ideas for an MG, right? There's no lack of enthusiasm to create when the wave is high. Right. But I used to really beat myself up when the wave is low. Right. I don't have any ideas, I can't — I don't have any motivation, I can't get into this, right. And I think a lot of MGs struggle with that. And then the generator side, which we both share, is the understanding the energetics of responding. And so we grew up in the, like, manifestation era, right? It's just like — and I used to be like, why can't I just manifest? Why can't I just make it work? Right? I just like, want to manifest this thing. I'm lacking a skill here somewhere. And then you dip in a human design and you go, oh, actually, when I can align myself with responding to life — yeah, that's when I felt so — I feel so powerful there where I'm like, okay. And I've even just kind of deeper really understood a bit more in the energetics around, like, shout out to Claude actually for helping me figure this out when I threw in some human design thing. It was like, you know, in my human design, like I'm designed to emanate. I'm not even designed to pull things towards me. I'm just designed to just be it. Yeah. Right. I'm just like, just embody it. How beautiful is that to just like be the values, embody the values, and the things will come to me. Exactly. And that seems so weird, right? Because you're just like, we're used to like — we grow up in the society where you just like go out and get it, fish it, kill it, hunt it. You gotta go out and be the killer. Like, you gotta go out and be the salesperson.
Elyse: Yeah, no. If you gotta take some ownership too and responsibility to, like, go look at that human design, figure out, like, what resonates with you or what, you know, what is your design? And, you know, the one of the hardest things for me to understand about my human design, because I was so entrenched in the go, go, go, hustle, grind, you've gotta work really hard. And I was like, oh no, I don't — I don't actually — I can go out and like go play and have fun and go ride horses and I'm gonna like do just fine. And to me, that has been the biggest like blow my mind. I love human design though, because it is like the masculine — it is the container that I need for my feminine energy, you know. And I don't — I'm not a human design teacher, but I do like guide some of my clients and help them figure out their human design and it supports them in their business decisions, right? Like, so if you're a sacral girl, it should be typically pretty easy. It's either yes or no, honestly. You know, but for the feelers, for the people who have to like really mull things over, you know, so it's a little bit different, but it allows them to, like you said, understand themselves, make decisions, yeah, choices, which can be, you know, it can be difficult sometimes. And how to do that. And if you want to go deeper — I don't know if you've heard of this — but if human design is the masculine, then gene keys is — oh, I love the gene keys.
Nicole: I literally have my gene keys book. It's like the only book that doesn't go back on my bookshelf. It just — right there, yeah, right there. It just stays with me. It's funny because my like, you know, you got your like top gene key, and my — it's like mine is style, and I've spent like my most of my adult life as a branding person and now is pivoted into systems, but the systems are beautiful, like it — like it was so cool, and it was like in some ways, I was like, whoa, that's kind of like a very superficial one to have, but also like how cool is that, you know, when you start seeing, like, that's actually — and I'm glad we're really talking about this because, like, this is a place where I start with all my clients, even though it's weird, because people are hiring me now to like build their automations, like it's very like masculine, like, oh, just build my systems. But I sit down and one of the first, like in our first meeting, I'm just like, what do you know about yourself? Human design, astrology, Myers Briggs, gene keys, like tell me all of it, because I want to help you understand how to market yourself, how to build a business that's aligned with you, your blueprint. Yeah, because, you know, are you introverted or extroverted? Where — how is your — like, I think it's really valuable to know in human design, especially for business owners, like, where are those open centers? Because I have two open head centers, both of them. And I took me a long time to really understand that I was absorbing a lot of pressure for other people's unanswered questions and not being able to let it go, waking up at three in the morning being like, how are we gonna figure out this automation we gotta build for this person? Because she asked that question, right? And so, like, you know, I think that's something that there's — I think there's a couple centers where it's really good for business owners to know are these open or closed? Like, I have an open willpower center. I can't be — I'm not designed to be consistent every day. So I'm fighting an uphill battle. Okay, so — do you have any open ones that you found that have really, like — yeah.
Elyse: So I have a pretty — so, oh, I get a lot of this kind of pressure from myself, pressure from the outside, and then then I'm like, then I go into response mode, and that can be really tricky. So I have to be very mindful of that. Now I have a closed will center, so, like, we go, we go, yeah. That makes a lot of sense for me because, like, everything that I've ever — okay, if I desire it, like, and I'm willing to do the work for it, like, let's go. There's — nothing's unstoppable, which is great, and, like, you know, and needs a little bit of balance there.
Nicole: Yeah, and you already spoke to that, instead saying I used to be a go, go, go person, right? It's just that, like, you got that motor that's always running for, like, I got the willpower to do it, like, right.
Elyse: It's there. It's so funny that you said that, because on my walk this morning, I was like, geez, I am just like a little — I was talking to myself, which I do a lot, like, but I was like, gosh, I am just like, ooh, it's got a little motor inside me that just wants to go and, like, go fast. And that's another thing. It's like, when I have some really good tracks to run on, like, I could — I go fast, you know? And so, anyways, it's just been a wonderful gift, right? You want to get your profile for free, and then you can read about it. And I mean, of course, you can do courses and all that if you want to, if you really want to, but I haven't found the need to do that.
Nicole: So it's actually — I feel like one of the greatest gifts that I've ever received is self-understanding and a blueprint to, like, look and go, oh, that explains — like, it's really helped me to stop, like, a lot of uphill battles that I feel like — lifelong uphill battles, even like, for anybody listening who's an emotional, right? To, like, understand that for me as an emotional, there's no truth in the now. I don't need to fight that. I don't need to fight certainty, and you don't need to fight to feel certain. And I have open heads, so I don't have to — I always felt like, oh, man, it's funny because the things that you give yourself permission slips for, a lot of us, it's the things we think are wrong with us, right? For, like, the longest time is like, how come I never feel certain? Like, I'm not a black and white person, like, I don't feel certain about things, I don't get, like, a super, like, yes, right. And sometimes I do. Sometimes do because the manifesting generator, you do have some of that sacral. Like, I have, like, I have that, like, I can decide, I'm decisive. Right. But I also — there's not a lot of truth in the now, right? And so you learn as an emotional in human design, like, take a few points over time, let it ride a wave, wait until you get to neutral. Yeah, and then that's a much easier place for me to decide from.
Elyse: Yeah, yes. And I think — no, just knowing these things about yourself, right, and mastering yourself — I mean, at the end of the day, I think that that's what a lot of us are here to do is, you know, master thyself and, you know, and get your gifts out into the world. So, yeah, and with Hippocrates, I wanted to say really, like, when they start to figure this out for themselves, it's like a whole nother world opens and then they start to maybe do their spouses or their partners and try to understand how they might work, right? It's just — and the one thing I want to say too about gene keys is when I saw my gene keys, I cried, because right there in the pearl in the sphere, the pearl sphere or whatever it is, is my highest value, is freedom. And I was just like, okay, that's fun, you know. And seeing the some of the things that I've gone through and been through, right, in my chart, knowing like, okay, all of that I had to go through to get me to essentially the city, right?
Nicole: Is that the victimization moves to freedom? That's what my partner has as well for his victimization. Yeah, 55 gate. Yeah, and it's a powerful one. Yeah, it's really powerful. Oh my god, I could talk about this stuff all day, but I think that, that — yeah, that feels like a really nice place to wrap up around knowing thyself, really, because that is whether it's through human design or through gene keys or astrology or anything, anything, right? Or journaling, there's so many modalities, right? Meditation and a combination of all of them. I think both as coaches but also as business owners, I really think that the more that we know, deeply understand ourselves and know ourselves, like, I know that it feels like things just fell away in the best way. Like, when you'd have all of that noise around everybody else's — like, you go online and every other ad, every other person you're following is gonna be like, you have to do it this way, you have to sell it this way, you have to buy it, you have to package it this way, you have to post this many times, and you can, like, sit in your values and be like, okay, what does this feel like for me? And then I can start just throwing away the stuff that just is like, you know what, weekly webinars doesn't fit for me. Right. This over here, speaking on stage, I don't ever want to do that. That doesn't fit for me, right? You know, so it's like, I just love that we can be more centered in ourselves and make decisions from there, right?
Elyse: Yes. I think that that in and of itself is such a gift to give to the world, right? And to show up that way. And, you know, whether you're — whatever kind of business owner you are, and let's say you're a health coach or a healthcare provider, you know, a couple things. You're a leader and people are watching, right? And you get this opportunity to be a role model, and I think a really positive one at that, to show people like, here is what's possible for your health and for your life and for your business. And then I think the other piece of it is too, is that as you're, you know, as you're on this journey, right, and you are doing the work, I think again, remembering that this is such a gift that you have to give to the world. And knowing too that, and I believe this 100%, like, whether you're a provider or a health coach who is doing the coach approach or behavior change at some level, the more that you do your own work and really embody it, there is a level of consciousness that you are activating and elevating. And I do believe that health coaches specifically are here to elevate, like, consciousness and support people on, you know, activating their own conscious level, start thinking a little bit deeper, thinking for themselves, taking ownership and responsibility. We — I think we do a lot where, you know, we export or we give the choices and decisions to other people. Yeah. Tell me what to do. Just, just whatever. It could be in business, it could be in — and I love it. Sounds like how you work, where you're like, no, tell me about you and let's figure out something for you. And that's the way I work too, is like, I am not about telling you how to do something because I want to know what's gonna really work for you because I want you to be successful in the long term. And so I just — I wonder, like, about a world that looks like that, like, gosh, what if, you know, more people are just taking ownership of themselves and their health and their overall well-being and what that could really do? I think it could transform a lot of things. So I love that question.
Nicole: Man, I feel like I could talk about this all day, but — I know, I know. So I want to know — where can people find you? Both on Instagram, and we'll put the links below, but where can they find you?
Elyse: Instagram, LinkedIn. I think those are like the two main ones. I'm on Facebook too, but come on over to my website as well, and there's a free training you can get access to. There's a newsletter you can hop on to. I send out weekly leadership notes, and so it's how to build your inner empire, your inner leader from a very nourished space instead of, you know, depletion.
Nicole: So come on, guys, go and grab that and we'll put that on the show notes down below too. Elyse, thank you so much for being here with me. I love this conversation so much.
Elyse: This is awesome. I know. I mean, uh, like you've got a generator, so, like, we call it a sparkly little generator. So I'm — yeah, I feel it too. It's fun, it's fun, and that's the energy. I'll just say this last thing — this energy that people just love. They love that, you know. So, anyways, well, thank you so much.
Nicole: And anybody listening, your homework — go find out about your human design, your gene keys. And share it below, though. And share it, yeah. All right, everybody. I will see you next week. Bye. Bye now. Okay, that's it for this episode. If you're sitting there realizing that patients are coming in just fine, but things are slipping through the cracks behind the scenes — the follow-up, the systems, the back end that's all held together by you and some sticky notes and a prayer — I've got a few free resources that'll help you see exactly where those gaps are. They're all linked in the show notes, so just go grab whatever fits you where you're at right now. Also, come follow me on Instagram too and hang out over there. I share a lot of good resources at Nicole.leadbetterHQ. And if you're past the figure it out myself stage and you just want a team to run the operational side of your practice for you, yay! That's exactly what we do at LeadBetter HQ. We run the operations and intelligence layer behind the practice so that patients you already have don't fall through the cracks, right? We like to make sure that we're working with what's actually coming in. So if that's a thing that you've been looking for, book a call with us. I'd love to chat with you. The link's in the show notes, and thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I'll see you in the next one. Bye now.