Nicole: Hey, and welcome back to the Lead Better Podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Harlow, and I'm so excited about my guest today, Kendra Perry. Kendra started out where a lot of us did as functional health coaches back in 2014. And she did it the hard way, course after course, a ton of trial and error, and more than a few launches that completely flopped. Don't worry, she's gonna get into those. But she figured it out. These days, Kendra is a business strategist and a mentor for established health and wellness practitioners, the founder of the Wealthy Coach podcast, and the creator of the Health Coach Accelerator, where she's helped hundreds of coaches build and launch online programs they're actually proud of without living on social media and without a hundred sales calls a week. What I love about Kendra and why I wanted to bring her on the show is she's not your generic business coach. She's already built the thing that many of us are trying to build. She knows the space, she knows what works in it and what doesn't, and she's refreshingly no BS about all of it. Today we're gonna get into launching, how to read your numbers, how to salvage a launch that flopped. And then we close on a hot take about perimenopause as a niche that I think is gonna stick with you because it definitely did for me. Without further ado, let's get into it. I'm here with Kendra. I'm so excited to have this conversation. Kendra, thank you so much for being with us today.
Kendra: I'm super excited to be here.
Nicole: So Kendra and I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago, and I was on the other side of the interview. So I'm like super excited to like turn the tables because you've got some like stuff that I really want to like pick your brain on that I think our audience who are mostly like health coaches, functional medicine, naturopathic docs, a lot of them are like solo practitioners, or they have like a really small clinic. And so I think that really aligns up with the type of person that you work with and teach. One thing that I don't really know a ton about that you do, so I really want to pick your brain is launching. So I think where I kind of want to go first is like let's go broad strokes for somebody who is like a practitioner, a health coach, should they be launching at all? Or should they like — I'm never quite sure, like in this industry, like is a launch a best thing for a health practitioner? One thing I know is like people who are listening are busy as heck. So like I would say my first question to you is like, should they be launching at all?
Kendra: Yeah. Well, I think that depends on a few things. It's like, do you want clients? Because usually launching will bring you clients, and usually it brings you a bunch at once. So if people are like already really busy, then there may not be — they may be good. They may not need to do that, and they may not be able to handle having a bunch of people come in at once. But sometimes people are launching, like they have a group or a hybrid program where like they can bring in a bunch of people at once and they want to boost up sales. I think in this current online space, a lot of people are struggling with clientele and sales and like consistency. And a launch is a really good way to not only engage your audience and nurture them, but also to bring a huge chunk of money potentially into the business. And it's probably unpopular, but I love launching. Like everyone's just like automate evergreen. I'm like, let's launch because I think it's fun. And I think in, you know, this space where people have their walls up, they're really skeptical, they've been burned before — we're dealing with this very jaded consumer. I think people need more touch points and I think they need more personal touch points. And I think that like live interaction is a really good way to just build trust with your audience, right? And I love a big injection of cash. I feel like for me personally, that's really what sort of moves my business forward is this big bump in cash, and then I can reinvest. And it just really makes me feel like I get ahead. And I like the energy of bringing a bunch of clients at once into the program. Like I think it's fun for them too to kind of start with a group of people rather than being like the little single duck on their own, like coming into some sort of evergreen experience with other people, that sort of thing. But I would say that being said, like you have to really consider your numbers, right? Because a lot of people will launch, like they'll run a webinar or some event, and they won't generate sales or minimal sales, and they think they failed. But when I look at their numbers, I'm like, no, you actually converted within the realm of normal. And sometimes the realm of normal is zero based off of what is typical conversion, which has been pretty consistent over the past 20 years in marketing. It varies per industry, it varies per person, but you know, like no one's really converting at 20% in a launch, you know, like it's like one to three percent, right? So you kind of have to look at the numbers and work backwards because what I've seen, and this has gone down, I would say, in the past few years, just with like all the changes to the online space. Like I used to be able to get 10% of my list on a live training. Now it's about four to five percent, right? So what I see to be normal in health and wellness is about two to six percent on average. Obviously, that's not guaranteed. If you suck at messaging, if you don't have the right audience for the event, if the marketing and strategy is bad, you can always get zero. But I see on average that two to six percent of your audience will join a launch, like an event, right? Like a challenge or a webinar or like whatever that sort of thing you're doing to kind of amp up the excitement is. And then of those registrants, so let's say you get 100 registrants, you're likely to convert one to three percent if, again, messaging and strategy is good. So if you kind of work the numbers backwards, sometimes that tells you that you're not in a position to launch because it's probably just gonna end up being zero, right?
Nicole: Got it. And we're like saying launching as something different than like having like an evergreen webinar, right? That sells like a group program or a one-time.
Kendra: Yeah. I mean, a launch can mean a lot of different things. Like the way I sort of think about a launch is sort of like a live event. Evergreen, I mean, you sort of launch it once, right? You put it out there once and then it kind of keeps going. But if we're talking about evergreen, typically you'll convert, like if I convert at 3% in most of my live events. You know, I'm converting about 3% of attendees, registrants. Typically, when you do that same thing in an evergreen format, you're probably gonna convert at half or less. So evergreen tends to convert lower than live just because you're sort of removing a little bit of like human touch out of it. And the more you kind of remove yourself from the process, conversion goes down. And that's fine. But what a lot of people don't realize about like evergreen and automated things is they're traffic hungry, right? They require a lot of traffic because of that lower conversion. So, you know, people are maybe driving traffic to it just through their organic channels, like through social media, and there's a good chance they're just not even getting the numbers for it to succeed. And I see this a lot with my clients where they're like, oh, like I launched this thing and I had a hundred people on my email list, I made no sales, I'm deflated, you know, I'm a go-getter, what's wrong with me? And I'm like, you know, me, 15 years in this business, like I've mastered messaging, strategy, marketing. I may not get a client from a hundred-person email list just based purely on numbers.
Nicole: So is there a place where — a couple different questions. Is there a place where practitioners need to be at before they start thinking about launching, right? Like, do they need to have a critical mass on their email list or social? Like, is there a threshold that you feel like they need to get to before they should even start launching?
Kendra: Yeah. So I'll speak to email list because social media is tricky, right? Because we never — we have very little control over who sees our post, when we see our posts. It's like a social media strategy will fit into a launch process, but typically you're gonna want to have an email list for that predictability of like the messaging, the message being received, right? Like if I send an email to my email list, I know it's gonna land in the at least the majority of the inboxes at this specific time, you know, and it's gonna hit this amount of people versus social media, like, you know, it can be really hit in this, right? But typically what I would tell my students, if you're gonna run a live webinar launch, like try to have at least a thousand email subscribers, right? And they need to be targeted, right? They need to be the right people. If, you know, you've been very general in your messaging and then suddenly you're selling a very specific weight loss program or Hashimoto's program, that might not work, even if you have thousands of people, right?
Nicole: Talk us through like kind of just the main map of like what does a launch look like? Like how far in advance should I be thinking about starting? You said there was a couple different like live components, like could it be like a webinar, a challenge? Like, what's the window look like? And what are some of the main kind of like events or things we should be thinking about from like start to post launch?
Kendra: No, it's a great question. And what I will say, like in terms of like, because people are like, well, you know, should I do something automated? Should I do something live? I would typically, if you're on the newer end, like you haven't done a lot of this before, start with live. It's easier to test, right? Because you literally get that live feedback. Like you can see how people are interacting to the content, to what you're doing in real time. Whereas when it's automated, it's just way harder to analyze because you're not there, you're not seeing the human. So typically it's best to start with something live in terms of launching. Now, what you do — for people who haven't done it before, probably start with a webinar. You know, my first live launch was a five-day challenge with a webinar on the end, and I almost put myself in like a psychiatric ward. Like it was just so — I had no idea what I was doing. I was so ignorant and I'd seen some other business owner do it. And I was like, maybe I should do that. Like, I was like that also — great. And I had like no team at the time. So I was making all the content myself and like the amount of emails, the amount of content, the amount of marketing, like it was crazy.
Nicole: I wouldn't — Kelly Roach's live launch method years ago, which is like five live days, and then you have like the encore like webinars. And you said publicly, you're an introvert too, right? Oh, yeah. Hard to do. I am too. Everybody listening. I am like massive introvert. Like, I love doing talking and podcasting, but like I'm generally like reading a book, and like I don't want to be talking to people at the grocery store, like I'm hiding down the other aisle if I see somebody I know. So that's so taxing to be doing. Like, I think I'm glad we're getting some meat of this because like I don't want people to think that it has to be this like five-day webinar encore because we both tried that and just like burnt the fuck out. Yeah. Totally. And like I actually do it crashed out.
Kendra: Oh yeah, big crash out, big crash. And I mean, I actually do like a three-day challenge launch now, but I have a full team, right? I have people who are supporting me in this, who are in there helping me, who are dealing with the tech, who are scheduling the emails, like, you know, I'm just basically showing up. So until you have help, I would not go that route to start. I would just do like a one-hour webinar, right? That's a great starting point and you can kind of work from there. But I would say, you know, and I understand your audience are really busy. And honestly, with the launch the first time you launch, there's not really a way out of it taking a lot of time. Like it's a big undertaking. Give yourself at least three months, right? Try not to put pressure on yourself because you're gonna need to create the event, like the promote, the webinar, like the content for that. Now it's nice now. We have AI tools. You can use something like Gamma App to like create slides quickly for you and that sort of thing. And you can obviously involve AI to help you with the process, but like just don't make AI write your webinar because I review a lot of webinars written by AI and they're all the same. They all sound exactly the same. It's the same sentences, the same language, like it's ridiculous. So, like, you gotta write your own shit. Use AI to help make it better, right? But then you got to write the promotional emails. You need a webinar registration page, you need the follow-up, like all the emails that go out after the event to get people to buy or book a call or apply or like whatever your process is, right? So there's just a lot of things. So you want to give yourself lots of time and you want to accept that, yeah, it's a lot of work and you can't really — it's a rite of passage, you gotta do it. It's a lot of work. Just pick away at it, give yourself lots of time, but then you're gonna keep basically redoing the same event over and over and over again. And then it gets easier, right? Like I can prep for a live launch in like less than a day now. You know, I just have to re-look at emails. Maybe I'm looking at analytics. Oh, maybe need to change the subject line there. Like maybe I'm reworking something in the script just based on some feedback I got. Like there's — it's more just updating and optimizing versus starting from scratch. It's that first one that is that's the big time commitment.
Nicole: Got it. Yeah. So the rite of passage, there's not really a way of kind of getting out of that. But once you've done it the first time, you can systematize that and make it easier for yourself. And really the goal is to learn with each launch, right? So sometimes like what can we do if we just kind of fail as a launch, right? Like we put all this press time in. Either nobody shows up, or I've had this happen plenty of times. A lot of people show up, but the conversion, it's either the messaging was off, like what can we do? Even just recently, I had a pretty disastrous launch of something that for me was a lot of information at the end of it, realizing that it was not a market that I wanted to serve. So even though there was a lot of signups, people were excited. Like, I wasn't excited about what I was selling. And so, yeah, and that's just one example, but I want to say I've been like 15 years into this, just like yourself. And like I still have things that kind of bomb, but they give good information. Yeah, but besides information, like what can people do to salvage the launch if they feel like it kind of goes a little pear-shaped?
Kendra: Yeah. And I mean, you said something really good there was like you get the information. And I think like if you're launching for the first time, expect to fail, expect to make no sales and then anything is bonus because the success is really just doing it because it's a lot and you're testing this a lot of different moving parts with an audience. And there's a lot of things that need to match up for that to work. And it's totally okay if you don't do it. It sucks, but if you sort of expect it going into it, it's okay, you know, and know that like a lot — I failed my first four launches, like that challenge launch. I don't think I made any sales, you know. After all that work, it was just like so deflating. I was like on the bathroom floor, fetal position, just like ugly crying. I was so devastated. But it's just because like I didn't really know what I was doing, you know, and it's okay. Like it's okay to fail the first time. You but you have that data set, which is really important. And so when a launch doesn't go well, like I always like to consider the entire human experience, like what's happening first, what happens next. So, like that funnel, right? And I start at the top of the funnel, which is like, how are these people? So I'll look at in terms of the launch. The first thing that happens is the emails go out to tell people to register, right? So the first thing I look at is those emails, like what are the open rates? Because we want to see open rates around 30%. We want to see click-through rates around like, I don't know, one to two percent, something like that. You'll get a sense of your own data, right? Succeeding in launching, you need to track your data and get a sense of like what you convert it and what's normal for you. But that's just some like baseline numbers, right? And so if you have emails, you know, I had a student who launched and her open rates were like terrible. And what we found out was like she didn't have the proper back end authentication with her email and she had a horrible rating in Google Postmaster. And so she was getting going to spam, right? And so it was like, okay, well, we need to fix that first because until we fix that, like everything lower down is not gonna work, right? So it could be that the subject lines didn't resonate. It could be that you went left field on your audience because your audience was built one way and now the offer is something different and it's not aligned, right? So we have to kind of look at that. And then the next thing that happens, the people who click on the email, they go to a registration page, right? What's the conversion on that? We want to see it around 40% or higher for warm traffic, right? If you are getting cold traffic, like if you're running Facebook ads or something like that, and you're getting — you have a page, which you should have separate, right? We want to track that separate. So you would have two pages. The cold, we want about 30%, 30%. It's gonna convert a little lower. So we want to look at those numbers because sometimes it's like the open rates are great, but then they're landing on the opt-in page or the registration page, and something about it is not resonating. It's too long, it's too wordy, the headlines not capturing them, like there's a technical something going on that's making the load speed slow, right? So then we want to look at that. And then a lot of times when you fix those things, then things are gonna go better later down the funnel, right? Because that's like the numbers piece of it. If you don't have a good conversion, you might just get less numbers, which is ultimately gonna lead to less sales. And then from there, it's like, what happens next? Well, it's the reminder sequence, right? We need to remind people to show up for the training. So how are we reminding them to get there? And we need to look at that live show up rate, right? We — a good live show up rate is about 25-ish percent. Like I can get as high as 40. If you're getting like 23, that's fine. But it's like if people aren't showing up, well, then what's the problem? Is the webinar at a time that they couldn't attend? Did you put a webinar on a Saturday morning where despite people's best efforts, you know, they're distracted, things come up. Or like, are you not reminding people with text reminders? Like that is actually for a little pro tip. That's the single biggest thing that will impact your show up rate are text reminders. You need them. Like people just aren't monitoring their email anymore like they used to. A lot of people just remind people through email, maybe or maybe a calendar invite, but you need those SMS reminders. Like you just do. I've seen people's show up rates go from 10% with that change alone. So it's a little tacky to set up, but it's very worth it to hire someone to do it for you.
Nicole: Do we have to offer like something free in these webinars? You know, you see, like if you show up live, we give you like a gift card or a — is that something that just like the big players are doing that, like the Marie Forleos, the like Gary Vaynerchucks, or I guess I see a lot of this like at like at our level, should you offering something free for — so I do it and I don't do it. Okay.
Kendra: Yeah. So I would say it was pretty standard in the past. I feel like now, because the other thing we're dealing with is a sophisticated consumer. It's not people's first rodeo. They've been to webinars. Yeah. So if it's really juicy, it might make people show up. One of my webinars, I always do it. I give the same thing away every time, and people are pretty excited about it. So that's great. But, you know, if people are, you know, is it really going to entice people to stay till the end? What really keeps people staying till the end is just having a well-flowing webinar, right? Like making sure you're engaging the people. It's relevant, like it's helpful for them in some way, shape, or form, right? Like if you have good energy for the webinar, like the content's good and your energy is even, then that's probably the best way to keep people till the end. So I'd say it's not necessary, but everything is worth being tested, in my opinion. Test it out. Does it help?
Nicole: Like a specific time for a webinar that you'd recommend, like I see 20 minutes, I see 40 minutes, 60 minutes. Like, do you have you seen something that works better?
Kendra: So with a live, I would say like it sort of depends because if you are someone who has a decent sized audience and you have a bunch of people on this webinar and they're engaging and like the energy is good. I let sometimes my webinars go long just for that very reason, right? Because I'm talking with people and answering questions on the fly. Like I like to engage with the audience and you should engage with the audience. But you know, you know, if it's your first webinar, maybe there's like five people on, which is fine. You know, maybe one of those people is your mom. That's also fine. Like your mom's there to support you. Great. But like I would say by 40 minutes, you probably want to be getting to your little pitch section. Got it. If it's a bit earlier, that's fine. I mean, sometimes I don't get to the pitch for an hour, right? Depending on the type of training. But again, if I'm getting lots of engagement, I just don't worry about it that much.
Nicole: I think that's something I have like a question about too, is in terms of, you know, having a live event and having that ER launch, like, how do we stop ourselves from over teaching? It's something I see. Oh, I like — I have a hard time with that myself. Like I feel like, you know, I feel like I over-teach. Next thing I know, I'm like at the hour mark. I haven't pitched yet. Like, what are some tips for us to, you know, think about maybe the framework around like where what should our webinar be kind of about based on what we're trying to sell?
Kendra: Yeah, it's a great question. And, you know, I think for health coaches and practitioners, like we're teachers, we want to teach, we want to give away a lot, we want to prove how smart we are. We want to show them like, and and honestly, the sort of way that people would think about this in the past is like, well, if I just give away such good stuff, they're gonna think, oh, that's so good. Like, I bet the paid thing's gonna be even better. Well, people don't really think about that anymore because information is no longer this valuable thing that people are wanting to buy. Like it's — yeah, like she's got all the goods behind the paywall.
Nicole: It's just like Claud's gone.
Kendra: No, like the content of my program is probably no better than anyone else's out there, right? And that's not really how you set yourself apart anymore. And in a what you don't want to do in a webinar is you don't want to give people like so much information that they feel like they can go off and do it on their own because they can't. A lot of them can't. There are those like glorified DIY people who are like incredibly disciplined and can go take it and go out and do it themselves, but most people are not those people, right? They require some level of support, right? I know you're the ones that can take that information and DIY. Oh, yeah. But I'm a crazy DIYer. But that being said, I also hire coaches and experts all the time to help me with things, right? But so I'm gonna credit Andra Bolin with this. She's a sales expert, she's amazing. She's like behind the scenes of a lot of my webinars. And she's like, you have to think about a webinar as a decision making environment. And I love that because you're there to just help people make a decision. That's it. Not like persuade them to go one way or the other, just literally put them in a mindset where they can make a decision generally with ease, whether that's a yes or a no. Okay. And so that really impacts the type of content that you're going to be teaching. And so a good way to think about it is rather than teaching and giving away a lot of how to — now I'll credit Colin Boyd with this because he has the, I think he calls it the lose the sale line. And it's like the more you go into the nitty gritty and the how to and all the little details, the protocols, that's how you lose the sale. If you keep it higher level, like concepts, stuff like that, or like shifting perspectives and beliefs, that's a big way to think about it is what you want to do, think of it as giving people these little aha moments, right? Like just like, oh, because the reason why people are on the webinar to begin with is because they have a problem that they haven't been able to solve despite whatever effort that is, despite trying on their own, maybe working with another coach, they have this problem. And the reason they can't solve it is because of, you know, maybe it's because they are focused on the wrong thing or they have a belief that is incorrect or you believe to be incorrect. And that's actually kind of keeping them stuck. So it's usually helpful to think about, and so this really comes down to thinking about your philosophy and how you actually work with people. Like if you think about your niche and your space, like what are what's the status quo? What are the typical pieces of advice that people are following that you're like, no, no, no, you shouldn't do that. You know, a good example weight loss is a really always a really easy example because you know the common dogma is like, you know, eat less, exercise more, right? But maybe you're like, no, no, no. If when you do that, like it works to a certain point, but then it stops working against you. And so that's what you need to share with your people. So rather than like teaching them how to do a certain thing, you're kind of unveiling the concept and that shift in perspective or belief. And it's uncomfortable when you do this and expect to feel uncomfortable because you're so used to teaching and that is in your comfort zone. And sometimes when you move away from teaching, you do less teaching and you're just giving them like this perspective shift. You feel like you're not providing value, but you're actually providing more value.
Nicole: I always feel that I just feel like I'm not giving enough. Yeah. You know, to — it's so normal. And actually make it like more high level, more aha moments more having them identify with like who they are and their their problems without solving every problem of the web spritz. Like that's a big one. And I know for our people listening that's going to be a big one for them as well because and we think like everybody kind of geeks out the way that we geek out too.
Kendra: Yeah.
Nicole: They don't — I'm like peripherally in the health world and I'm like such a health geek. So I think everybody wants to like go into the lab results and like and they don't.
Kendra: They just say they don't — and and you can do it a little bit like it's okay to kind of touch. You can show examples you can just say hey like you know I was just helping a a student with a webinar and she helps with fatigue and you know fatigue is a really broad symptom. There's a lot of different reasons why. And so she shows a few things where because a lot of times they're like oh you need to check your iron you need to check your thyroid but she's like show an example of look this person's thyroid is fine their iron is fine that wasn't actually the cause this was the cause versus this lab well yeah actually this is the cause you know like you could kind of use examples that's fine. You just don't want to go too nitty gritty into all the fine details how to like you know like you you got to kind of know your audience. Some people have a nerdier audience who are a little bit more educated in say labs. And so maybe you can talk about those a little bit more. But then maybe you have people where they're super intro and that's just going to be over their head. So you got to kind of know who's in the room.
Nicole: Yeah.
Kendra: So know who your audience is. But it is really uncomfortable because yeah logically we just don't feel like we're getting enough and I remember the first time I learned this a long time ago because I'd just been doing webinars just yeah just teaching and you know I would get sales from them. This is like back in the day where you could kind of get away with more of that right like it's it's different now. But I remember my webinars weren't converting as well and so you know I started kind of learning about them and I learned this whole concept of shifting beliefs and I was like crapping my pants this whole webinar I'm like people are just going to hate me. They're going to think this is someone helpful and I had never gotten better feedback. People were just like wow you blew my mind like it was like the opposite of what I thought because think how valuable that is for someone if like changing someone's perspective is like it's like a thought leader quality right it's it's what we go to leaders for. Like when you think about someone stuck in one way of doing things they've been doing it over and over and over and they're like why isn't this working and you finally show them like why that doesn't work and that they don't need to do that anymore.
Nicole: Sometimes they're just like — Yeah right this is one of the things I think I struggle with personally the hardest. And I think it comes from a background and a lot of CEOs and business builders have this like DIY mindset. And so I'm like the type of person to go to a webinar and I'm like oh give me as much information as you can so I can help I can like reconstruct it myself and try to do it myself. And so I think I take that same energy into my own webinars where I like over deliver over give and kind of give them like I don't know say we're talking about like AI systems. Like I want to give them like you know and just assume that like okay the people who don't want to build this themselves are going to hire me. But also I kind of lose everybody in the process. So I'm assuming a lot of people listening are doing that as well.
Kendra: Oh yeah. And I mean that comes back to that decision making environment like you will ruin the decision making environment if people feel really like overwhelmed, right? They feel really overwhelmed and like oh my God like if you just it it it's so easy to fly over people's head especially as health coaches and practitioners because we have a lot of education a lot of training we're really nerdy about it. We love it. And it's just like the people who you're trying to help like they didn't they don't want to be health coaches.
Nicole: Yeah.
Kendra: If they did they would just do your certification program or your diploma or degree right like they would they would pursue that but they have a problem and they're looking to solve it with as little friction as possible. So they don't actually need to know all the things they kind of need to need just know what to do.
Nicole: But what people need more than ever these days is support and accountability right because the information is there like the information I think sometimes as business owners we get bored of the way we say things over again. And so try to like I feel like I'm constantly reinventing the wheel of different ways to say it when I'm actually like just have the one easy way of saying it and say that right but I know say it to you know a different audience you know like just like bring new people in and then say the same thing. But so my question is like for this way of launching is does this work for people who are doing like one on one as well or is this just for like group programs?
Kendra: I think it can work for whatever and I think if you're doing a one-one program you just have to consider like how many can I take at once. So you might cap it right you might say like here's your deadline to apply or until I essentially enroll five people like I may end it early if I you know because I can only take on five people at once or something like that.
Nicole: Yeah so you're limited by how many people you can take yeah then what about like cadence for not burning your audience out is this like a few times a year is this I've seen people like I remember Kelly Roach's thing back in the day was like every six weeks you're running one of these live launches. Do you have like a standard that you what do you think so it sort of depends on list growth, right? Like because you can't keep launching the same thing over and over to the same small list and is expect it to generate results right what I've noticed is that a lot of buyers will sign up for the same training multiple times, right? They may not be attending it every time they may be signing up and they didn't make it or they signed up and they came and then they want to come again. But usually I see that buyers typically have signed up for the same event multiple times. So there is something to people seeing an offer presented to them multiple times before they're ready but also like you can burn out your list. So it depends on how quickly you're growing your audience right if you're growing your audience by a thousand a month, which is a good number to aspire to you could probably do it every four to six weeks for sure.
Nicole: Our email list not our social media email list, yeah.
Kendra: Email list is way more valuable. It's hard to reach all the the social media but what you can do this is a way if you're looking to increase launch conversions is you could run ads to your warm audience, right? A lot of people will try to beef up their launch by running ads to like a cold audience. So people who don't know them, they're finding them for the first time through this ad they're attending a one hour webinar are they going to be ready to enroll in your mid to high ticket program? Probably not yeah back in the day sure great strategy today very few people do that successfully right so but what you can do if you if you use meta ads is you can create custom audiences, right? So you can basically create an audience out of everyone who's engaged with your Instagram in the past like six months. You can do that with Facebook at some point I'm sure you'll be able to do that with threads. You can target people who visited your website you can target your email list. You can put those all into an audience and that's how you can actually beef up the people to your webinar with people who already know like and trust you right so those people are going to be more likely to convert. But I'm going off track here like in terms of like cadence like I would say every three months is good to do at least I would say at least every three to four months it's good to do something live with your audience to engage them to build trust right to build those relationships. But I mean I have a lot of my students doing webinars every four to eight weeks sort of depending on how quickly they're growing their list. It's the best way to test it. I currently do a webinar every two weeks I do the same webinar every two weeks but that being said I'm not I'm running ads to it so I send ads to it and then every two months I invite my whole list.
Nicole: Got it okay so you're bringing fresh people every two weeks but then every two months you're inviting your audience back. Yeah. Always the same webinar though. I'm doing the exact same one if it works it works. I mean that's like it works to aspire to get to right this is totally a a webinar that we can trust that works. So you don't really have a f about it because then you're just sick at me for like an hour and you're just like cool I'm teaching the thing I already know I've got my slides ready to go I know my talking point.
Kendra: It's like that's like that's the place to get to and we're just using it's almost easier for me to do a you know webinar every two months than every month because I can just use the same ads campaign. It's just always going and then at the start of the website like the dates and the links and and then it rolls over into the next two weeks. So all I'm doing is just showing up and doing my thing.
Nicole: That's awesome and you know me I love systems. So I love like getting to like an easy system that we can repeat like every couple months. I love bringing the ads in like yeah especially if someone's getting started like what do you think kind of a good budget like a daily budget is for something like that like 10 to 20 bucks or yeah so it sort of depends on what you're paying.
Kendra: Like I would say a good strategy like if you're thinking about launching like six months down the road start ads now for lead generation, right? Like have a very aligned freebie this is really important because this is one of the when we're talking about like hacking a failed launch top of the funnel is almost I would say like 80% of the time the problem. The people they're attracting are not the right people for the offer. So there's a mismatch it happens all the time where sometimes what people have done is they have gone the steps to niche down. They've picked a fairly specific niche but then what they're running ads to is general. So they're getting something a bit too general like if like let's say so let's say like when we're niching down I'm always like you got to pick one problem and you need to choose a human identity right because we actually need to be able to be very specific with our messaging and speak to somebody's lived experience. So maybe we're doing working moms in their 40s with anxiety that would be a great very specific niche. Your freebie needs to be five steps to reduce anxiety as a working mom in your 40s what it needs to be because you need that exact person because if all your messaging is pointing towards that person and that's what the program is then we need to attract that exact person. So we don't want to be clever we want to be stupidly clear.
Nicole: You had something on your social media that I read that I was like oh yeah that totally makes sense it was like it was talking about like niching and how you can have like a woman in her 40s, right? Like her early 40s and one is like a mom little kids and she's like kind of eating lunch like off the like you know the kids then you have like another woman same age she's like eating like takeout meal in a hotel because she's like a businesswoman and she's traveling and then you have like an empty nester mom who's like at home by herself like cooking a meal and like sad. So it's like same age same sex totally different experience. Yeah like that I just love like that way of thinking and that's like okay so I'm gonna wrap up with a totally different question. Like what about launch but this is my like segue into it. You have a hot take about perimenopause not being a really great niche and I know a lot of people listening like that is their niche and so like what should we be thinking about I think this is kind of like I think we're just like queuing up the key here like that these like women are having such different experiences but like what's your hot take on perimenopause well yeah you brought up something really important there.
Kendra: Like so a few years ago it was probably sufficient to say I held women in their 40s and that was as far as you went with identity. It doesn't cut it anymore because the online space is saturated like post COVID all these businesses came online there's a lot of people are online now running businesses like and you know I think the stats are saying we get shown 4,000 to 10,000 advertisements a day. Our brains just can't take that in. So we're filtering to the max right so people are only really resonating with things that it's like oh that's exactly me. Right. So the problem with women in their 40s which is essentially perimenopause right because what is perimenopause and I have it's so interesting because I've been doing this a long time and every person coming into my program is like oh I'm niche and perimenopause. It's like this space has exploded but and I am not saying perimenopause isn't an issue. It's just not a problem because it's a life phase that everybody goes through. Some people have a bad experience with it. Some people have a fine experience with it. But the problem is perimenopause can cause virtually any symptom you know a lot of things get frozen shoulder to yeah perimenopause I must be very you know it all my cycles are perimenopause like I'm fatigued perimenopause like it's almost like the new you're just getting old it's perimenopause you know and I think the problem is with perimenopause I actually did a big deep dive into this because I was like what is going on with this? Like everyone is doing this but it's not a good niche because it's super broad and I'm looking at the different information and I'm just looking at the main like health organizations like the North American Menopause Society versus the NIA all defining it differently like it's really ill-defined in the medical community. So if it's ill-defined in the medical community and there's no general consensus on how long it lasts what it is then our human who we want to support doesn't really get it either and I think the problem is it's really exploded. And it's great for women that there's you know what's the word of looking for awareness. There's awareness around it right because you know a bunch of years ago it was fairly ignored and women really suffered and no one was talking about it. Well now everyone's talking about it. So there's a lot of interest in it. So people think they're in perimenopause all the time but are they? Well we don't actually know because it's defined differently so and all these different symptoms can happen. You can be anxious you can get fatigued you can you know get mental health stuff you can get GI stuff you can get bloated like it's crazy the amount of different symptoms of and experiences and a niche that will work today like I said before you have to define an identity that ties together a lived experience. So you mentioned like women in their 40s can be you know I had a baby at 40 so I have a toddler right now right so like that's my 40s experience I have a toddler running after this toddler living that life but then I could also be like I have a friend who just got divorced and her kid is 17 and just moved out. We're the same age. So she's dealing with the fact that now she's in this empty home she's singled her kids off you know going off to college and she's like oh my God well that's not my experience like I'm like can I have my alone time please when does that happen right like it's just it's very different. And then yeah you your busy single professional who's just like career focused like doesn't have a partner by choice like isn't doesn't want to have kids there's that out there too but when we talk about like messaging and marketing we need to speak to people's specific experience. So when we just target perimenopause we don't know who we're talking to and also what problem are we actually talking to how can you like if you start talking about weight loss you're like because that's something that happens in perimenopause you start talking about wait well there's a bunch of people in your audience who have no problem with weight but they have anxiety but they're still under that perimenopause bubble. So I think what happens is it's really easy to grow quickly in the perimenopause space because there's a lot of interest a lot of people think they're in it whether they like it or not is a huge interest space but it's not a great buyer space because your messaging can never fully align with all those people. So the way that we get around this in my program is we have people like choose the identity like the who and then choose a specific experience of perimenopause. Is it fatigue?
Nicole: Is it the weight is it the mental health stuff is it right show and sexual right exactly as well so you can kind of really like it almost like niching down within perimenopause. Exactly and then helping you know just create like an identity around the type of like busy moms or you know like I don't know C-suite executives who are in their 40s like that kind of thing. I guess it's super helpful about and I totally agree. I think like I've seen everybody in my space like switch to perimenopause as their main niche right in though especially in the last like five to eight years I would say even all the podcasts that we are hosting for our clients I think perimenopause is a huge part of what they're talking about. And I think as a woman also in my 40s like I I appreciate the information is out there. Like I feel for the better in terms of information. So I don't think this is either of us saying like ditch it completely but know your identity within the perimenopause space because it is big it is crowded and more people are entering this arena every single day.
Kendra: Being like the niche this is the niche this is a niche. Exactly and I think an important distinction to make is there's a big difference between how you market and how you practice right like know that once they're in your program you do all the things you do all the perimenopause things you can educate them on all aspects of perimenopause because even if they came to you because they are you know a toddler mom in their 40s who suddenly gained 30 pounds like they probably have some other symptoms too and you can educate them on what they need to know to fix those other symptoms too but how you market like you you want to be broad more in your program but you got to be specific in your marketing and it is what I would my opinion is it's probably the most competitive space to go into you're competing with a lot of other practitioners and doctors and you're also competing with HRT because something else I've noticed is in that space is you end up with a crowd of people who will just want to know your HRT information.
Nicole: But if you can't prescribe that then you end up competing with doctors who can you know it's just like it's a whole thing corporate like corporate wellness that just have like a random doctor that's you know hopped for five minutes and then prescribes HRT. So I think that's really well said too awesome and thank you for like talking about that. Because when I saw that that was one of Kendra's like podcast episodes this year and I was like I have to ask her this question. So I know everybody listening is like menopause.
Kendra: Yeah. And it's funny because when I post it on threads or social media it always takes off and people are so angry but I'm like no no no like reread it like you read it. Like you're you're misinterpreting what I'm saying.
Nicole: Yeah information like maybe out there and I know again like as somebody like in my 40s when I was reaching out to find like a functional health coach or specialist I live in Pennsylvania so I'm not like in some like the high density area like in an urban area and I had a hard time finding somebody to work with. So like it's it's kind of both end because like even though it's a super crowded space online like it's still kind of hard for women to find the resources that they're needing. So don't hear this and at least from my side like I'm not saying change your niche and stop helping women and barimon menopause because we definitely need the help like for like but know who you are in that space too and the type of and I think what you're saying Kendra from like thinking about it from the marketing perspective.
Kendra: Yeah the launching perspective too right like you'll have a much easier time if you niche within the perimenopause space. Like instead of having perimenopause is just a category. You got to go deeper than that you can still do all the perimenopause things support the women in perimenopause educate them on them but your marketing needs to speak to that like lived human experience with that specific problem of perimenopause.
Nicole: Awesome I think that's very well said and a really nice place for us to wrap up I'd love if you could just let people know like where they can find you are you on Instagram are you on threads like where are your social media platforms of choice?
Kendra: Yeah so Instagram is probably where I hang out the most my handle is at KenderPeri Inc. at KenderPerry INC I am on threads posting you know healthful things and weird things from my little mountain home so that's where like my weird side comes out if you care. And then I also have a podcast which Nicole was on and I think your episode is coming up pretty soon. So that's the Wealthy Coach podcast.
Nicole: That's great. And I'll put all those links below in the show notes so people can check them out. If they want to get onto your email do you have any like freebies or things that you want to do I have a lot of freebies.
Kendra: I can send you like I mean I have a good niche workbook which might be helpful for people who need to niche down and I have a good messaging workbook as well where I teach sort of my messaging framework that is sort of aligned with what's working today. So I could give you the links to those if people want to jump on the email list.
Nicole: So we will put them under there. Kendra thank you so much for hanging out with me today. Loved having you on this side for this conversation and thank you for being here with us. Yeah thanks so much for having me. All right see you later everybody bye okay that's it for this episode. If you're sitting there realizing that patients are coming in just fine but things are slipping through the cracks behind the scenes the follow-up the systems the back end that's all held together by you and some sticky notes and a prayer I've got a few free resources that'll help you see exactly where those gaps are. They're all linked in the show notes so just go grab whatever fits you where you're at right now. Also come follow me on Instagram too and hang out over there. I share a lot of uh good resources at nicole.le and if you're past the figure it out myself stage and you just want a team to run the operational side of your practice for you, yay! That's exactly what we do at Leadbetter HQ. We run the operations and intelligence layer behind the practice so that patients you already have don't fall through the cracks, right? We we like to make sure that we're working with um what's actually coming in. So if that's a thing that you've been looking for, book a call with us. I'd love to chat with you. The link's in the show notes and um thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I'll see you in the next one. Bye now.